REBOOT 2007 : Saddo's Official P4P list (the top 5 slots) VOTE!!!

Again...Vic Darchinyan :-\ :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

Again...Vic Darchinyan :-\ :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

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Sorry bro, I'm sticking with him, cause if you sent him through some sort of Star Trek beaming thingy that scaled him up to most of the others there, and in the flat of the lb for lb ring, I reckon he would beat most of the bigger guys. By the definition of comparing someone lb for lb the smaller you are the better you're going to compare.

And if you're looking for people who shouldn't be there:

B-Hop, ODLH, Klitschko and definitely Valuev.

Interesting - sounds like a lot of you base p4p rankings on how each man would perform at a certain weight. But that's difficult! I mean, if PBF were a heavyweight - 220 or so - do you think he'd still have the same handspeed and reflexes? So it's difficult to compare a lightweight fighter against a heavyweight fighter just on the argument "how would they fare against one another at the same weight". So many of the attributes that define certain fighters would not hold up under the "transformation" to a different weight.

Sounds like a flawed way to judge p4p, but, my opinion isn't much ;)

That's why I look at skill, heart, and COMPETITION! These things are completely independent of weight.

My top 5 p4p:

1. PBF - who can beat him? who's even come close (aside from the 1st Castillo fight, which I think PBF won, but it was very close)?
2. Winky - such a long and storied career of travelling into the backyards of world-class opponents and beating them in front of their own fans... He should also be the undisputed MW Champ if it wasn't for another one of Jermaine Taylors infamous home-cooked decisions.
3. Pacman - explosive power in both hands these days, an absolute wrecking ball in his division.
4. B-Hop - In his 40s, after two very controversial losses, comes out of retirement, moves up to 175 and beats the recognised LHW champ, not to mention beating Jermaine Taylor at least once - even if the judges didn't think so, everyone else does.
5. Casamayor - You could make an argument that he should be 38 - 0, though to be fair I never saw the Raiymkulov fight (or the Freitas fight for that matter). I actually voted for JMM, but upon reflection I have changed my mind... I'd put him at #6.... after years of being underrated I actually think he's overrated at this point... Beating Barrera was a good victory, but I think a younger MAB would have beat him convincingly.

Pacquaio
Mayweather
JMM
Taylor
Coto

Don't disagree

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Originally Posted by bcollins

Interesting - sounds like a lot of you base p4p rankings on how each man would perform at a certain weight. But that's difficult! I mean, if PBF were a heavyweight - 220 or so - do you think he'd still have the same handspeed and reflexes? So it's difficult to compare a lightweight fighter against a heavyweight fighter just on the argument "how would they fare against one another at the same weight". So many of the attributes that define certain fighters would not hold up under the "transformation" to a different weight.

Sounds like a flawed way to judge p4p, but, my opinion isn't much ;)

That's why I look at skill, heart, and COMPETITION! These things are completely independent of weight.

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See, this is why it is so difficult to judge lb for lb as everyone wants to do. In lb for lb, the inference is that if the fighters were to weigh the same. Basically you've just got to go on your gut feeling as to how good each of the fighters are, when compared with each other, because it is impossible to compare everyone on a level playing field. Before he made the step up to Welterweight, I'd have rated Hatton up there in the top 10 lb for lb, but when he didn't really perform there, he dropped a little. But then that again depends on how you look at lb for lb, and in which division you base his rating on? I may be rambling, and missing the point completely, but it's a tough subject, that is, at the end of the day, 90% opinion in comparing the top fighters in each division.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

See, this is why it is so difficult to judge lb for lb as everyone wants to do. In lb for lb, the inference is that if the fighters were to weigh the same.

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That's where I have the problem - If they weigh the same, then which weight do we choose?

e.g. Let's take PBF vs. W. Klitschko. If they were both at HW, how's the fight work? PBF is slower, but still very defensive. He'd have more power, but how much more? How much slower would he be?

Similarly, if Wlad were at 140-147, how much faster would he be? How much weaker? (How much shorter?)

What if they both met at, say, Super middle?

That's my problem - each of those scenarios is a TOTALLY different fight. So if we're talking p4p as being both fighters at an equal weight, there's gonna be discrepencies depending on the choice of weight. It's very inconsistent.

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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun

But then that again depends on how you look at lb for lb, and in which division you base his rating on? I may be rambling, and missing the point completely, but it's a tough subject, that is, at the end of the day, 90% opinion in comparing the top fighters in each division.

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:coolclick: I think you got the point exactly. You're absolutely right - it's a matter of opinion. That's why I'd like to rank fighters across weight divisions based on criteria that is independent of weight - take some of the opinion out of it!

...that's what I get for being a math student - I can't be happy unless everything is well-defined ;)

1 pac
2 pbf
3 calzaghe
4 marquez
5 hatton

also as to the discussion about the difficulty of establishing p4p rules......imo it isnt the case that you judge p4p by saying something such as 'if tarver was 11st he would lose power but gain speed,whearas hatton would do the opposite'.I have always thought of it as 'scaling up' or 'scaling down' a fighters attributes.so in an imaginary bout a very powerful welter would have the power advantage over a light-heavy of average power.does that make sense?it does in my head

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Originally Posted by ryanman89

1 pac
2 pbf
3 calzaghe
4 marquez
5 hatton

also as to the discussion about the difficulty of establishing p4p rules......imo it isnt the case that you judge p4p by saying something such as 'if tarver was 11st he would lose power but gain speed,whearas hatton would do the opposite'.I have always thought of it as 'scaling up' or 'scaling down' a fighters attributes.so in an imaginary bout a very powerful welter would have the power advantage over a light-heavy of average power.does that make sense?it does in my head

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Yeah, I think so. It is a matter of scaling up and down, and for example scaling a flyweight up 30% to compare with a super middle would see all those attributes increased by 30% for the comparison.

1) Floyd Mayweather
2) Bernard Hopkins
3) Manny Pacquiao
4) Winky Wright
5) Marco Antonio Barrera

Mayweather! I can't stand him but he is a winner. The Marquez brothers with a resurrection from Juan Manuel. B-Hop because he seems more comfortable as a light heavy for now. Hatton for personality more than ability but he is a winner. Honorable mention Marco Antonio Barrerra. True there are new faces and they are good but just one more time for these guys until they are dethroned or finally defeated for the last time.

Mayweather is the champion os showing out !!

Rafeal Marquez
Juan Manuel Marquez
Joe Calzaghe
Miguel Cotto
Manny Pacquio .

No real order just fighters with a set of bollocks .

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

Mayweather is the champion os showing out !!

Rafeal Marquez
Juan Manuel Marquez
Joe Calzaghe
Miguel Cotto
Manny Pacquio .

No real order just fighters with a set of bollocks .

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cuz it takes real bollocks to fight Sakio Bika and Peter Manfredo back-to-back. That's like Hopkins-Hopkins-Wright times ten.

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

Mayweather is the champion os showing out !!

Rafeal Marquez
Juan Manuel Marquez
Joe Calzaghe
Miguel Cotto
Manny Pacquio .

No real order just fighters with a set of bollocks .

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cuz it takes real bollocks to fight Sakio Bika and Peter Manfredo back-to-back. That's like Hopkins-Hopkins-Wright times ten.

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DeMarcus Corley and Henry Bruseles...two back to back fights from Floyd Mayweather.
Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym, Serikzhan Yeshmagambetov, Emmanuel Lucero...three back to back fights for Manny Pacquiao.
You can look at different periods of fighters' careers to usually back up most arguments about fighters, and this is just a recovering from injury period for Calzaghe.

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

To those who have Vic Darchinyan in the Top 5, please let me know what kind of weed you've been smoking, because I want to get my hands on some...

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And I'll roll, who's got the Pizza ?