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Originally Posted by Lords Gym
I am shooting from the hip,so to speak.LOL
Have a CC
These stats on Australia are interesting but they don't take into account other things that have happened which might account for crime etc.
Most armed robberies in Australia are guys who go into a petrol station with a baseball bat or a big knife - usually not a gun.
There has been a pretty nasty (worst in 100 years) drought which has caused many farmers in country areas to commit suicide. Farmers are allowed to own guns for work purposes so they go out into the bush where there is no one to stop them and shoot themselves. I guess they are just extremely depressed suddenly finding themselves unable to support their families despite working their arses off because of something as uncontrollable as the weather.
September 11 and following cultural unrest has in some cities evoked too much fear and suspicion and hate. This has lead to some cultural unrest and increases in related crimes which have nothing to do with gun laws and usually do not involve guns.
If these crimes did involve guns I believe the death toll would be much higher. Stress and hardship will occur and crazy people will always act out but if they have a more powerful weapon they can do more damage.
As I've said before if these laws were brought into the US they might not be enforceable enough to be successful but those stats do not prove that the laws are not working in Australia.
What is not working in Australia is the treatment and services catering for mentally ill people. I've heard too many stories of people who try to off themselves many times and are still discharged from mental hospitals only to kill themselves and other people at the first opportunity.
I wonder how many killings could be prevented if there was better preventative care for the mentally ill?
Good article and good points Sharla.
Lyle: wouldn't the gun be your first choice of a suicidal weapon??? I mean it seems more appealling than drowning or some other method.
nah some people hate their life so much they want to have as painful a suicide as imaginable. I think the most popular means of suicide is a big building dive: you get a once in a lifetime view, it traumatizes everyone who sees and it takes awhile to clean up.Quote:
Originally Posted by boozeboxer
the government can NEVER decide we cannot have guns, it would be the only way to put them in line if the got totalitarian and shit, also i would imagine alot more people would commit crimes with guns if they knew it was illegal for someone to defend themselves with 1Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
thats a thing that a lot of people don't understand. This country was founded with the ability to revolt against a government if the one they set in place should some how be corrupted.
You're absolutely spot on, mate. They are a total nightmare. This guy obtained guns via the internet over here. Laws vary from state to state, but I could go to WalMart right now and by a shotgun and walk out of the store within five minutes with a powerful firearm. My best friend did the same and went home with it and blew his head off. ::** :'( Absolute disgrace. But you are never going to see that happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by porkypara
With the severe polarization of the current Supreme Court, and the historical commitment to Stari decisis, there is no way they would alter the 2nd Amendment. I"m moving back to Europe in a few years anyway. But the fact of the matter remains that many of these laws should be reexamined by an independent panel made up of a variety of pundits from different political persuasions.
The U.S. is a great country, but all forms of government and lawmaking are inherently flawed everywhere around the globe. :(
I understand a few people kill themselves with guns but people also try to kill themselves in cars by driving the wrong way on the highway......should we ban cars too???
What about knives?
Also the 2nd Amendment is a valid reference point because as you well know it was put in effect to keep the government from being tyrannical....and if you think that threat has gone by the wayside then you are sorely mistaken!
Guns are fine in the hands of responsible, mentally healthy people.....can we agree on that? I mean I know accidents happen but shit accidents happen with ANYTHING....give me an object and I can tell you an accident that has occured with it!
Also you must ask yourself, if a person wants to kill themselves then not having a gun won't stop them....I mean there are MANY MANY MANY other ways
Yeah, but my best friend Rob was hospitalized 6 times for suicide attempts. He was clearly mentally unstable and was able to go out and purchase a gun. These current gun laws are a complete joke, and believe me, I'm no Michael Moore fan. Actually, I despise the man for what he did to an infirmed Charlton Heston. But don't get me started on commie bastards like him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The question that I have for you, Lyle:
How and who determines who is responsible to own a gun? Apparently no system has been put into place to investigate any potential FIREARM owner. Yes, people get killed in cars; killed in the ring; killed by a knife attack, etc. That still doesn't justify the ease of obtaining a firearm, don't you think?
Further, when this country formalized the amendments, the inhabitants were living in a completely different world. The threat of Euro-Tyranny was still fresh in the minds of the founders. Things are much different now, though.
The N.R.A. has also used the 10th Amendment to oppose the Brady Bill. A full battery of psychological tests should be put into place and mandated for persons wishing to own a firearm. This is one of the most inane laws in this great country. ::**
But the majority of people who jump through all the hoops to get their guns aren't going to shoot people.
For every Cho Seung-Hui there are a million law abiding gun owners!!!
The majority rules in the US and therefore guns are still legal because the majority of voters want to keep them legal.
Your friend Rob shouldn't have been able to buy a gun, I whole heartedly agree...but that shows me a problem with the mental health system in the US as well as the gun laws....don't place 100% of the blame on one area.
The "tyranny" was not just from Europe, it was homegrown as well....if our government ever took steps out of bounds the US citizen was able to GATHER LEGALLY and have firearms and take down the government.....of course you'd get charged with treason but treason is difficult to be convicted for.
So you would agree that a full battery of psychological and background checks should be implemented? The current system of background checks is a joke. Fact of the matter is a firearm is far more dangerous than most other conventional weapons. You think that screwball nut in Virginia would have been able to kill over 30 people with a knife, ax, machete, etc.? No way. It would have never went down that way. An IMMEDIATE moratorium should be put on any type of firearm purchases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
The majority really doesn't rule here, Lyle. It's not a direct democracy like the ancient Greeks had. It's a representative democracy where politicians get elected to office by the people and then open their bank accounts to the plethora of lobbyists in Washington. They count on the people having short-term memories during their stays in office and don't want touch such issues with a ten foot pole.
If guns is all you have you wouldn't stand a chance against a corrupt wealthy government today.
Think about all the advanced weapons and trained soldiers they have.
I did my honours degree on a protein that can kill you if as little as one molecule enters your system. It can enter the bloodstream with a tiny pin prick and is completely untraceable.
I was looking at it's expression and role in the developing grain so I didn't have to play with the actual protein itself (luckily otherwise I'd have probably accidentally killed myself) but it can be extracted and used by people wealthy enough to do it.
Do you really think the government doesn't have extremely advanced technology that could wipe you out in the blink of an eye?!?!
Of course this is a bit dark and i do not really sit at home fearing government conspiracies but I'd just like to point out that if guns are owned as a right to overthrow your government then that is outdated.
Excellent points. :coolclick: Any graduate student with access to a University lab can make an abundance of varied lethal pathogens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharla
??? ::** :P I can see the E.C.U. education is really making an impact on your thinking, Lyle. Public executions? What the hell are you thinking? I'm convinced that this was just a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
I'm for a moratorium on the Death Penalty. Over recent years, with the advent of PCR testing and other forensic technologies, several death row inmates have been exculpated for crimes they didn't commit. I wonder what the total tally is for inmates wrongly convicted that were executed? ::**
There is no punishment greater than a dangerous inmate who killed someone to have to spend the rest of his days in prison, and be locked down in a cell for over 20 hours a day.
Taking away the freedom to simple things like no interaction and isolation is a far harsher punishment than getting a needle stuck in your arm and going to sleep.
What they really need to do is put such offenders, under supervision, in a brick-yard and have them work like slaves from morning to dusk.
You can't and shouldn't lower yourself to an animals level.
C'mon, Lyle. I thought that you were more reasonable that this.
If, in fact, it was a joke, disregard my comments.