Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Preme
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I got Pavlik coming in at number 15 with Taylor dropping out of the top 15.
nice to see someone who isn't getting carried away with all this.
WELL MY TOP TEN IS THUS
1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10 all Joe Calzaghe because he has beat 20 big strong chalangers all by himself :Sarcasm:
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by southakron314
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I got Pavlik coming in at number 15 with Taylor dropping out of the top 15.
If Pavlik knocks out the guy in 6.75 rounds of boxing and that guy beat Hopkins twice,then why dose Hopkins get in the top five and Pavlik is in you 15th ranking? Please embellish on this because I'm confused.
P4P ranking isn't based on a single fight alone though buddy. Hopkins is the longest reigning middleweight champ of all time. Prior to his razor thin decision losses to Taylor he was p4p number 1 in the sport and had reeled off 20 odd straight defenses.
He also held all the belts and was the unified middleweight champ.
Since his losses to Taylor he has rebounded beating THE man at 175 lb jumping two divisions in the process and has beaten the best other middleweight Winky Wright.
Hopkins is top 5 p4p NO QUESTION!
Pavlik did great last weekend and the whole boxing world just stood up and took notice. But he doesn't jump up as high as Hopkins on the back of one win.
The p4p rankings arn't (or shouldn't) be at the mercy of every single fight result. To be a top 10 p4p you need to have proven yourself, defended your title a few times, unified some belts, maybe moved up and won belts in two or more divisions.
When you consider Pavliks acomplishments in the light of other fighters he's not yet done a whole lot. Sure, he might go on to be great, but you don't become great on the back of a single win. If he defends his belt a few times, unifies the titles or makes a sucessful move up to 168 lb then he becomes one of the elite.
For now he's just made the first (huge) step. :)
So Auburn is better than Ohio State because Florida lost to Auburn and Ohio State got throttled. How is it not different.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by southakron314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by southakron314
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I got Pavlik coming in at number 15 with Taylor dropping out of the top 15.
If Pavlik knocks out the guy in 6.75 rounds of boxing and that guy beat Hopkins twice,then why dose Hopkins get in the top five and Pavlik is in you 15th ranking? Please embellish on this because I'm confused.
P4P ranking isn't based on a single fight alone though buddy. Hopkins is the longest reigning middleweight champ of all time. Prior to his razor thin decision losses to Taylor he was p4p number 1 in the sport and had reeled off 20 odd straight defenses.
He also held all the belts and was the unified middleweight champ.
Since his losses to Taylor he has rebounded beating THE man at 175 lb jumping two divisions in the process and has beaten the best other middleweight Winky Wright.
Hopkins is top 5 p4p NO QUESTION!
Pavlik did great last weekend and the whole boxing world just stood up and took notice. But he doesn't jump up as high as Hopkins on the back of one win.
The p4p rankings arn't (or shouldn't) be at the mercy of every single fight result. To be a top 10 p4p you need to have proven yourself, defended your title a few times, unified some belts, maybe moved up and won belts in two or more divisions.
When you consider Pavliks acomplishments in the light of other fighters he's not yet done a whole lot. Sure, he might go on to be great, but you don't become great on the back of a single win. If he defends his belt a few times, unifies the titles or makes a sucessful move up to 168 lb then he becomes one of the elite.
For now he's just made the first (huge) step. :)
So Auburn is better than Ohio State because Florida lost to Auburn and Ohio State got throttled. How is it not different.
Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.
Anyway my take on it is this. The p4p rankings are based on a fighters overall record and performances over a period of time not just one fight result.
Just like in a soccer or American Football league during the groups stages if you beat the top team it doesn't automatically put you above them, it depends how many points you both had before.
In soccer Man Utd might lose to Fulham but it doesn't mean Fulham will replace Man Utd's position in the league it depnds how many points they had both scored in the season so far.
Likewise in boxing, Pavlik scored a huge win over Jermain Taylor but he doesn't on the back of that win, his first title fight, jump into the top 10 p4p imo. Likewise Taylor doesn't plummet down too far, it doesn't work like that.
Violent D said Pavlik is about 15 and I broadly agree. He beat the man in the middleweight division, BUT at least half of all ref's would have stopped the fight in the second round in favour of Taylor, in which we case we would all be talking about how Taylor blew Pavlik away. He was also trailing on all scorecards as well so talk about a Pavlik domination of Taylor is overblown.
It was a terrific fight reminiscent of Vazquez Marquez and like those fights the rematch could just as easily swing the other way.
Meanwhile Pavlik has only had 1 world title fight. That doesn't catapualt you to top 10 p4p imo. I'd still have guys like Mosely, Calderon, Kessler etc above him just outside the top 10 as they have all won belts in multiple divisions or else won multiple belts in the same division.
If you are going to just raise someone 20 or 30 places on the p4p list on the back of one result then your p4p list is going to change more often than Michael Jacksons face.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
He has two belts when i last checked the WBO and WBC i mean those are two belts and i think he has the ring belt which almost matters as much
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Mr140
He has two belts when i last checked the WBO and WBC i mean those are two belts and i think he has the ring belt which almost matters as much
Very true. He is the main man at 160 now. I would love to see him fight Abraham though.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by southakron314
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by southakron314
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Originally Posted by Violent Demise
I got Pavlik coming in at number 15 with Taylor dropping out of the top 15.
If Pavlik knocks out the guy in 6.75 rounds of boxing and that guy beat Hopkins twice,then why dose Hopkins get in the top five and Pavlik is in you 15th ranking? Please embellish on this because I'm confused.
P4P ranking isn't based on a single fight alone though buddy. Hopkins is the longest reigning middleweight champ of all time. Prior to his razor thin decision losses to Taylor he was p4p number 1 in the sport and had reeled off 20 odd straight defenses.
He also held all the belts and was the unified middleweight champ.
Since his losses to Taylor he has rebounded beating THE man at 175 lb jumping two divisions in the process and has beaten the best other middleweight Winky Wright.
Hopkins is top 5 p4p NO QUESTION!
Pavlik did great last weekend and the whole boxing world just stood up and took notice. But he doesn't jump up as high as Hopkins on the back of one win.
The p4p rankings arn't (or shouldn't) be at the mercy of every single fight result. To be a top 10 p4p you need to have proven yourself, defended your title a few times, unified some belts, maybe moved up and won belts in two or more divisions.
When you consider Pavliks acomplishments in the light of other fighters he's not yet done a whole lot. Sure, he might go on to be great, but you don't become great on the back of a single win. If he defends his belt a few times, unifies the titles or makes a sucessful move up to 168 lb then he becomes one of the elite.
For now he's just made the first (huge) step. :)
So Auburn is better than Ohio State because Florida lost to Auburn and Ohio State got throttled. How is it not different.
Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.
Anyway my take on it is this. The p4p rankings are based on a fighters overall record and performances over a period of time not just one fight result.
Just like in a soccer or American Football league during the groups stages if you beat the top team it doesn't automatically put you above them, it depends how many points you both had before.
In soccer Man Utd might lose to Fulham but it doesn't mean Fulham will replace Man Utd's position in the league it depnds how many points they had both scored in the season so far.
Likewise in boxing, Pavlik scored a huge win over Jermain Taylor but he doesn't on the back of that win, his first title fight, jump into the top 10 p4p imo. Likewise Taylor doesn't plummet down too far, it doesn't work like that.
Violent D said Pavlik is about 15 and I broadly agree. He beat the man in the middleweight division, BUT at least half of all ref's would have stopped the fight in the second round in favour of Taylor, in which we case we would all be talking about how Taylor blew Pavlik away. He was also trailing on all scorecards as well so talk about a Pavlik domination of Taylor is overblown.
It was a terrific fight reminiscent of Vazquez Marquez and like those fights the rematch could just as easily swing the other way.
Meanwhile Pavlik has only had 1 world title fight. That doesn't catapualt you to top 10 p4p imo. I'd still have guys like Mosely, Calderon, Kessler etc above him just outside the top 10 as they have all won belts in multiple divisions or else won multiple belts in the same division.
If you are going to just raise someone 20 or 30 places on the p4p list on the back of one result then your p4p list is going to change more often than Michael Jacksons face.
hear ye, hear ye.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by southakron314
1. Mayweather
2. Hatton
3.Ponce De Leon
4.Vasquez
5.Manny Pac
6.Pavlik
7.Mosley
8.Hopkins
9.Berra
10.Marquez
Stick to being a Pavlik fan (by the way, I'm one too)... and leave the p4p lists for people who know a bit more about boxing, ok?
;)
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
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Originally Posted by Mr140
He has two belts when i last checked the WBO and WBC i mean those are two belts and i think he has the ring belt which almost matters as much
The Ring belt means more than those alphabet trinkets!!! Pavlik will more than like be stripped of one or the other sooner or later... he should just throw them away now. Atleast he can only lose his Ring belt in the Ring!
As for P4P Pavlik doesn't make the top 10 yet for me.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Think i put just at 10 and i would not have a problem putting him as high as five if he beats Abraham and Stern and unifies all the belts what a great thing that would be a person with all the 4 major belts we could have one champ again can you imagine that i sure can and hope it happens hell i put him higher but now for me he is ten but i just want to see him unify the middle weight division and i be waiting
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Think i put just at 10 and i would not have a problem putting him as high as five if he beats Abraham and Stern and unifies all the belts what a great thing that would be a person with all the 4 major belts we could have one champ again can you imagine that i sure can and hope it happens hell i put him higher
Bro no offense but forget all that alphabet crap! Hopkins had all 4 belts, so in theory Pavlik already would if it wasn't for all the stripping. The Ring belt is the only one that matters. It's been their since Hopkins defeated Trinidad to win the vacant belt. Taylor won it by beating Hopkins & now Pavlik is the middleweight champion by dethroning Taylor.
So you can stop imagining now bro as we already do have one champ.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Yea i guess your right but if Pavlik did beat Abrham and Stern i put him up there for clearing his division completely more what i meant
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Yea i guess your right but if Pavlik did beat Abrham and Stern i put him up there for clearing his division completely more what i meant
Yeah I agree about cleaning out the division, Abraham 1st, then maybe a Taylor rematch or a fight with Wright. I think Sturm gets beat by Griffin so Sturms out for me!
cc bro
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Yea cc back my friend i think Abraham would be a good win because he is the other guy that beat Miranda but is was close but Kelly beating him i think would be great maybe they should have that before the rematch and give that time to build up a bit more
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Pavlik is not top ten buti if he keeps doing this hes on his way
and im a big ponce de leon fan but hes not even top twennay O0
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
