Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
if Mayweather isn't ATG what do you defy as an ATG then ??
  Simple beat a couple of ATG's....... rather simple. This is not a list of ATG's! And especially when the division is in its current state of who is the best and you avoid them. 
Addicted, that is a completely retarded and unrealistic response -- it's also in direct tension with your earlier statement that beating Cotto and Williams would make Floyd an ATG.  (Hint: neither Cotto nor Williams are ATGs!!  In fact, the only other living fighter who's even arguably an ATG right now is Bernard Hopkins (RJJ too, though he's clearly out of his prime).  I hope you're not suggesting Floyd has to move up to Light Heavy and beat Hopkins in order to stake his claim....)
No just to beat a dangerous foe that mirrors some of his skills rather than the calculated schedule of fighting slow plodding fighters. Who has has been his largest ring risk ?
He's Addicted and know his stuff  ;)
Let me Cool click you
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
I do consider Mayweather a great fighter. His past accomplishments speak for themselves.
I don't look at any fighter as p4p best as it is a flawed interpretation with too many intangibles. If I did however, I could not consider Floyd to be p4p the best fighter as I am not even close to convinced he is even the best 147 pounder out there. Even though I consider him the most technically sound fighter alive right now, there are bigger and stronger men in his own weight class who have, in my eyes, a very good chance at beating him.
This is the kind of mess having 10000 world title belts up for grabs causes. A fighter gets to pick and choose who he fights and more often than not they will always go after weaker prey, especially when they tie in greatness with winning belts in different weight classes.
Not to take anything away from Floyd, as he is a victim of the state of boxing just as much as everyone else. He has to be wondering what he has to do to prove his greatness as he would have to keep fighting and fighting to cement his claim. All the other top dogs in the division are only aiming for him and not for each other. If they fought each other and let the dust settle, then Mayweather could not skip past their name any longer and he would have to either put up or shut up. This is the exact reason you cannot lay the blame on Mayweather himself.
Not all his victims were slow plodders either, Judah was fast as hell. Sure he has some weaknesses, but he was very dangerous.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Damn not one reply to my post above. I was expecting both sides to either agree, or hammer me with SC's. ;D
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
I agree with stewart, but you cant fault Mayweather for selecting the fights with the most money attached.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
if Mayweather isn't ATG what do you defy as an ATG then ??
Simple beat a couple of ATG's....... rather simple. This is not a list of ATG's! And especially when the division is in its current state of who is the best and you avoid them.
Addicted, that is a completely retarded and unrealistic response -- it's also in direct tension with your earlier statement that beating Cotto and Williams would make Floyd an ATG. (Hint: neither Cotto nor Williams are ATGs!! In fact, the only other living fighter who's even arguably an ATG right now is Bernard Hopkins (RJJ too, though he's clearly out of his prime). I hope you're not suggesting Floyd has to move up to Light Heavy and beat Hopkins in order to stake his claim....)
No just to beat a dangerous foe that mirrors some of his skills rather than the calculated schedule of fighting slow plodding fighters. Who has has been his largest ring risk ?
There isn't a fighter out there that is anyway even close to Mayweather in technical skills.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
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Originally Posted by Deanrw
I do consider Mayweather a great fighter. His past accomplishments speak for themselves.
I don't look at any fighter as p4p best as it is a flawed interpretation with too many intangibles. If I did however, I could not consider Floyd to be p4p the best fighter as I am not even close to convinced he is even the best 147 pounder out there. Even though I consider him the most technically sound fighter alive right now, there are bigger and stronger men in his own weight class who have, in my eyes, a very good chance at beating him.
This is the kind of mess having 10000 world title belts up for grabs causes. A fighter gets to pick and choose who he fights and more often than not they will always go after weaker prey, especially when they tie in greatness with winning belts in different weight classes.
Not to take anything away from Floyd, as he is a victim of the state of boxing just as much as everyone else. He has to be wondering what he has to do to prove his greatness as he would have to keep fighting and fighting to cement his claim. All the other top dogs in the division are only aiming for him and not for each other. If they fought each other and let the dust settle, then Mayweather could not skip past their name any longer and he would have to either put up or shut up. This is the exact reason you cannot lay the blame on Mayweather himself.
Not all his victims were slow plodders either, Judah was fast as hell. Sure he has some weaknesses, but he was very dangerous.
why do you even bring up the biggest boxing underachiever this decade to add laurels to PBF. Omit him please Zab is not a plus but another question mark. A boxer with a glaring affinity for melting under pressure.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
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Originally Posted by Deanrw
I do consider Mayweather a great fighter. His past accomplishments speak for themselves.
I don't look at any fighter as p4p best as it is a flawed interpretation with too many intangibles. If I did however, I could not consider Floyd to be p4p the best fighter as I am not even close to convinced he is even the best 147 pounder out there. Even though I consider him the most technically sound fighter alive right now, there are bigger and stronger men in his own weight class who have, in my eyes, a very good chance at beating him.
This is the kind of mess having 10000 world title belts up for grabs causes. A fighter gets to pick and choose who he fights and more often than not they will always go after weaker prey, especially when they tie in greatness with winning belts in different weight classes.
Not to take anything away from Floyd, as he is a victim of the state of boxing just as much as everyone else. He has to be wondering what he has to do to prove his greatness as he would have to keep fighting and fighting to cement his claim. All the other top dogs in the division are only aiming for him and not for each other. If they fought each other and let the dust settle, then Mayweather could not skip past their name any longer and he would have to either put up or shut up. This is the exact reason you cannot lay the blame on Mayweather himself.
Not all his victims were slow plodders either, Judah was fast as hell. Sure he has some weaknesses, but he was very dangerous.
why do you even bring up the biggest boxing underachiever this decade to add laurels to PBF. Omit him please Zab is not a plus but another question mark. A boxer with a glaring affinity for melting under pressure.
For the simple reason that many in here have stated that Mayweather has only fought slow plodders. I picked an example that Judah is far from a slow plodder and I stand by my statement. I also stated that Judah has shortcomings, which was accurate. If you want to really pick apart a boxer based on their opponents, you can do it to almost any current fighter really.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
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Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
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Originally Posted by shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
if Mayweather isn't ATG what do you defy as an ATG then ??
Simple beat a couple of ATG's....... rather simple. This is not a list of ATG's! And especially when the division is in its current state of who is the best and you avoid them.
Addicted, that is a completely retarded and unrealistic response -- it's also in direct tension with your earlier statement that beating Cotto and Williams would make Floyd an ATG. (Hint: neither Cotto nor Williams are ATGs!! In fact, the only other living fighter who's even arguably an ATG right now is Bernard Hopkins (RJJ too, though he's clearly out of his prime). I hope you're not suggesting Floyd has to move up to Light Heavy and beat Hopkins in order to stake his claim....)
No just to beat a dangerous foe that mirrors some of his skills rather than the calculated schedule of fighting slow plodding fighters. Who has has been his largest ring risk ?
There isn't a fighter out there that is anyway even close to Mayweather in technical skills.
Ok not as fast but really fast, not as technical but technically sound, or 2 prominent traits that PBF does not posses such as genuine power with speed, as in Cotto. Or Height with speed as in Williams . Or Height with power as in Margarito. But power with no movement is not gonna beat PBF nor is speed with no power. No one is going to out speed PBF. And many of us want to see those matchups. It is said styles makes fights. And it is my feeling that PBF has manipulated that to a tee. He just may beat the mentioned above but until he takes a risk he will not be anointed his greatness.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
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Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
feeling that PBF has manipulated that to a tee. He just may beat the mentioned above but until he takes a risk he will not be anointed his greatness.
::**
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
.....Floyd has PLENTY of opportunities to sort this out on his own
However, if he was just a tad more likeable he would be more accepted as "an all-time great fighter"...anyone can talk, but not everyone has the balls to take chances, vs Oscar that was kind of a chance....Hatton was about the same...one was old and one was small. He hasn't taken on the Hearns, Duran, or Hagler of his era
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Well i think PBF will fight Cotto and Williams and Cotto adn PBF is hard for me to call but i have a feeling that Williams will win against PBF PW is just not the style for him PW has a huge reach advantage,uses angles well, can throw 100 puches a round and has good speed in doing so as well so we will see.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanrw
I do consider Mayweather a great fighter. His past accomplishments speak for themselves.
I don't look at any fighter as p4p best as it is a flawed interpretation with too many intangibles. If I did however, I could not consider Floyd to be p4p the best fighter as I am not even close to convinced he is even the best 147 pounder out there. Even though I consider him the most technically sound fighter alive right now, there are bigger and stronger men in his own weight class who have, in my eyes, a very good chance at beating him.
This is the kind of mess having 10000 world title belts up for grabs causes. A fighter gets to pick and choose who he fights and more often than not they will always go after weaker prey, especially when they tie in greatness with winning belts in different weight classes.
Not to take anything away from Floyd, as he is a victim of the state of boxing just as much as everyone else. He has to be wondering what he has to do to prove his greatness as he would have to keep fighting and fighting to cement his claim. All the other top dogs in the division are only aiming for him and not for each other. If they fought each other and let the dust settle, then Mayweather could not skip past their name any longer and he would have to either put up or shut up. This is the exact reason you cannot lay the blame on Mayweather himself.
Not all his victims were slow plodders either, Judah was fast as hell. Sure he has some weaknesses, but he was very dangerous.
I thought your post was very good and I gave you a CC for your words of wisdom :)
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
I agree with Emanuel about this one. But about not being an ATG though, time will decide that. He is right about what he says about past fighters and how there was more emphasis for them on beating the best to be the best, that's what mattered then. Now there are alphabet soup belts all over the place so it's hard to decide who is the best and who to fight.
Floyd's thing is the "money making" tag ATM so that's where he's at I think. I don't think he's dodging anyone but the "if it doesn't make money it doesn't make sense" thing is foremost in his mind it seems so he goes for the fights with the $$$. However that doesn't mean he is dodging anyone or if he fought whoever for lesser money he wouldn't beat them.
He always shows up prepared and does his best. Sure he comes across as a dik at times but it's just marketing.
It won't be long before there is either a "Pretty Boy Promotions" or he is devoured by the Golden Boy Promotions Juggernaut and is the East Coast CEO or something. Guess that depends on how he goes about his fiscal affairs.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Sorry for the late reply.
Floyd is the greatest fighter of our era. He has confirmed to us at several weight divisions that his skill is unrivalled in boxing today. Question marks are raised about his failure to unify any division but in reality is there a necesity. Despite my earlier (inaccurate) criticisms Floyd has faced risk. He took De la Hoya and Hatton, two dangerous fighters and beat both, he took the feared Diego Corrales, he took Castillo twice. He took a huge Welter champion in Baldomir (although Baldomir will never make anyones p4p list!) He faced a number of unknown quantites and overcame every obstacle so far.
A magnificent boxer and oustanding Boxing brain, his physical deterioration may force him to retire sooner than he can confirm his ATG status.
It's not that he's going to get any better, but he may need a few more names beside his to cement his legacy. It may or may not happen, but in the eyes of the purist I feel he's up there.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
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Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
I agree with stewart, but you cant fault Mayweather for selecting the fights with the most money attached.
So he is an ATG then .......... All Tactical Gainer !!! $$$$$!!!!!!!!!
