Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
The ring is not only a magazine, it is the only organization that recognizes who the real lineal champ of each division is. Please tell me the flaws of the Ring system.
"You become champ by beating the champ" can be considered a flaw since it can be also manipulated on who will control the belt. The challenger need not work up the rankings to get a shot at the ring champ.
The ring champ has no mandatories and this also can be considered a flaw.
Of course the Champ controls the belt, who else would?
Why is not having any mandatories a flaw?
How about the promoter of the champ who chooses only challengers that he also promotes... The promoter controlling the ring belt... Example: Casamayor > JMM > Juan Diaz or Casamayor (again) or Katsidis... You know the promoter of these boxers, the owner of Ring magazine... ;D
The ring champ can keep his belt for years by not fighting since he is not forced to make a mandatory fight...
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Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
"You become champ by beating the champ" can be considered a flaw since it can be also manipulated on who will control the belt. The challenger need not work up the rankings to get a shot at the ring champ.
The ring champ has no mandatories and this also can be considered a flaw.
Of course the Champ controls the belt, who else would?
Why is not having any mandatories a flaw?
How about the promoter of the champ who chooses only challengers that he also promotes... The promoter controlling the ring belt... Example: Casamayor > JMM > Juan Diaz or Casamayor (again) or Katsidis... You know the promoter of these boxers, the owner of Ring magazine... ;D
The ring champ can keep his belt for years by not fighting since he is not forced to make a mandatory fight...
.
So what are you proposing that's better?
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
I keep trying to read through this but it keeps growing in pages too fast ;D what a fight ! The rumors of Marquez's demise have been greatly over stated.I am not surprised that Marquez pulled it out but I had reservations about the weight being an issue...........so much for that.
Marquez was just way too accurate and sharp a hitter down the stretch for a bit past it but still superb thinker fighter in Casamayor.May sound cornball but in an odd way it was almost just as interesting watching them think as it was seeing the exchanges,both very calculating but Marquez again cemented his place as one of the most proficient and top ring generals over the last number of years.
The lightweights are exploding before us,awesome match ups recently and in the future.I would have to rank Campbell as above the rest right now,off of his dismantling of an arguable HOF'er and long term champ in Casamayor.....Marquez at 2.Pac debuted at light against a limited but all courage & grit Diaz but he was just keeping the belt warm for him Imo....3rd!Is there any doubt they should go for the trilogy,the contentious and heated nature of they're prior two will be debated for many moons.Looks like Pac is more interested in lining his pockets vs. The Diva though.I dont think Guzman or any other fighter should be ranked in a division they have never competed in,Off his debacle and weight problems....he may skip division entirely ??
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Of course the Champ controls the belt, who else would?
Why is not having any mandatories a flaw?
How about the promoter of the champ who chooses only challengers that he also promotes... The promoter controlling the ring belt... Example: Casamayor > JMM > Juan Diaz or Casamayor (again) or Katsidis... You know the promoter of these boxers, the owner of Ring magazine... ;D
The ring champ can keep his belt for years by not fighting since he is not forced to make a mandatory fight...
.
So what are you proposing that's better?
Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?
So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ?? :lolhaha:
.
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
How about the promoter of the champ who chooses only challengers that he also promotes... The promoter controlling the ring belt... Example: Casamayor > JMM > Juan Diaz or Casamayor (again) or Katsidis... You know the promoter of these boxers, the owner of Ring magazine... ;D
The ring champ can keep his belt for years by not fighting since he is not forced to make a mandatory fight...
.
So what are you proposing that's better?
Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?
So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ?? :lolhaha:
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Reasons to use the ring over Alphabet belts
Alphabet titles don't rank other alphabet champs, ranks can be purchased, titles can be lost by not paying fees, of because an organization "feels like it". They rank people that haven't fought in a division
Reasons to use The Ring over fightnews.com and yahoo.com
fightnews and yahoo are based strictly on someone's opinion
they rank people that haven't fought in a division.
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Bottom line: You still have not justified PAC at # 1.
The Ring is the most definitive way to define a champ
fightnews.com has no merit to define who is # 1 in a division.
YOU ARE A DAMN FANATIC.
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
So what are you proposing that's better?
Nothing... It's been there for years and any system can be potentially corrupted... Any system will be flawed... Heard about people cursing those alphabet belts?
So we have to live with my own "flawed" rankings that PAC is the no. 1 lightweight in the world right now... Agree ?? :lolhaha:
.
Reasons to use the ring over Alphabet belts
Alphabet titles don't rank other alphabet champs, ranks can be purchased, titles can be lost by not paying fees, of because an organization "feels like it". They rank people that haven't fought in a division
Reasons to use The Ring over fightnews.com and yahoo.com
fightnews and yahoo are based strictly on someone's opinion
they rank people that haven't fought in a division.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bottom line: You still have not justified PAC at # 1.
The Ring is the most definitive way to define a champ
fightnews.com has no merit to define who is # 1 in a division.
YOU ARE A DAMN FANATIC.
Are you mad? Please don't take rankings (and belts) seriously... We can discuss about it and that's it... These things is part of boxing politics that ruining the sport...
What matters most to us fans is the fight itself... Just hope they'll make the best fights out there and we will be satisfied...
F u c k those rankings and belts... (after several pages discussing it) :lolhaha:
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Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Please don't generalize... Just say "Saddoboxer" not "Pac-fans"... OK? :lolhaha:
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Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SaddoBoxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Please don't generalize... Just say "Saddoboxer" not "Pac-fans"... OK? :lolhaha:
.
I would if most (not all) Pac fans didn't act the same way.
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
:lol: no doubt.Living vicariously through Marquez superb showing.....:bucktooth:.
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
I must admit I don't pay much attention to the Ring magazine rankings. I don't see how fightnews rankings are based on opinions but the Ring magazines arn't :confused:
I think people lose sight of the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to actually rank people across different weight classes.
All it can ever be is an opinion no matter how well informed.
The only rankings that actually count in a real sense are the alphabet rankings. Does this mean I think these rankings accurately predict who the best fighters are in each division, hell no, of course not, they are biased and corrupt a lot of the time.
But the fact remains that within the sport they ARE the rankings. If the WBC says you are ranked number 3 then you ARE ranked number 3 IN THEIR ORGANISATION and no ring ranking is going to change that.
Look at the football league tables, right now Hull City are currently fourth in the premiership table. Does this mean they are 4th best team in the whole of England? Fuck no, nobody will expect them to finish in the top 10 come the end of the season but subjective opinion is meaningless because right now they ARE the 4th best team in England according to the Premier League table.
People get so hung up on subjecitve (and ultimately meaningless) Ring rankings that they fail to recognise that that they have no value in the real world of boxing.
You ask any fighter if he would rather never win a world title belt but be considered the ring champ in weight class or never be considered the ring champ in his weight class but to win a recognised a title belt and I'm certain they will all choose to win a real belt.
The fact is that in the real world a boxer would rather wrap the WBC, WBA or IBF belt around his waist than to be proclaimed the Ring champ in his weight class.
All the ring belt means is that people think you are the best, the belts are the actual prizes in boxing, just like the premier league title is the most important accolade in English football.
What do you think Man Utd or Chelsea would rather have? The recognition of being considered the best team in the country, or the actual trophy?
It's belts in boxing and silverware in football that is ultimately important.
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Sheesh, it's the same ol' aruguments between the same ol' people, with the same ol' battle-line clearly drawn long time ago, with one group trying to belittle the accomplishments of the others' boy, while trying to inflate the accomplishments of their own, and vice versa. Don't you guys ever get tired?;D;)
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
like someone else said the arab-emirates belt is the only one that holds much weight anymore.....
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
I never seen that coming.
I knew the fight would be close like it was but i never expected it to end by a stoppage.
Re: Joel gets stopped - major surprise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I must admit I don't pay much attention to the Ring magazine rankings. I don't see how fightnews rankings are based on opinions but the Ring magazines arn't :confused:
I think people lose sight of the fact that it is IMPOSSIBLE to actually rank people across different weight classes.
All it can ever be is an opinion no matter how well informed.
The only rankings that actually count in a real sense are the alphabet rankings. Does this mean I think these rankings accurately predict who the best fighters are in each division, hell no, of course not, they are biased and corrupt a lot of the time.
But the fact remains that within the sport they ARE the rankings. If the WBC says you are ranked number 3 then you ARE ranked number 3 IN THEIR ORGANISATION and no ring ranking is going to change that.
Look at the football league tables, right now Hull City are currently fourth in the premiership table. Does this mean they are 4th best team in the whole of England? Fuck no, nobody will expect them to finish in the top 10 come the end of the season but subjective opinion is meaningless because right now they ARE the 4th best team in England according to the Premier League table.
People get so hung up on subjecitve (and ultimately meaningless) Ring rankings that they fail to recognise that that they have no value in the real world of boxing.
You ask any fighter if he would rather never win a world title belt but be considered the ring champ in weight class or never be considered the ring champ in his weight class but to win a recognised a title belt and I'm certain they will all choose to win a real belt.
The fact is that in the real world a boxer would rather wrap the WBC, WBA or IBF belt around his waist than to be proclaimed the Ring champ in his weight class.
All the ring belt means is that people think you are the best, the belts are the actual prizes in boxing, just like the premier league title is the most important accolade in English football.
What do you think Man Utd or Chelsea would rather have? The recognition of being considered the best team in the country, or the actual trophy?
It's belts in boxing and silverware in football that is ultimately important.
Get your point here mate, but boxing is very different.
If you win the premiership you have proven, over a season that lasts from August til May, to be the best team in the country - nobody wins the premiership by fluke or by dubious sporting politics.
David Diaz was world lightweight champ, but by no means the best lightweight in the world. Paper champions are all over boxing. I've pretty much stopped even looking at what belts people hold - all I'm interested in are matchups and quality fights. Seriously, the only thing that concerns me as far as who has a belt is to ensure the fight goes 12 instead of 10...
