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No offense intended but using this logic Sven Ottke also qualifies as a 'perfect fighter', and that is all sorts of wrong, as is calzaghe and marciano being listed. Lopez has no problem making an argument thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
As I've said Ricardo Lopez & Alexis Arguello for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36With respect, i can understand you vouching for marciano and lopez, but calzaghe? JC was an above average champ at best, certainly no all-time great. I saw JC slag off Roy Jones jnr as, and i quote, "finished 4 or 5 years ago" and i agreed with him. He was right, jones was finished. But to turn round 6 months later (after he signed to fight him)and try to say that Jones still had gas in the tank is nothing short of insulting peoples intelligence. Have a look at his defences and tell me how many were in the top 10 of the other, more prestigeous governing bodies. I may be wrong but i counted 6. Now im not here to slag off calzaghe as he comes across as a decent enough guy and the name of the game is to make as much money as you can and get out with your senses intact, but to claim to be an all-time great is nonsense. Some people point to his unbeaten(and well padded) record but another british guy from basildon called terry marsh was an unbeaten world champion and im sure he wouldnt claim to be a superstar. Nowadays unbeaten records dont carry the clout they once did. Can you imagine if Valeuv hadnt lost to chagrev (i think) he'd have now broken marcianos record!!! Blasphemy!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
I understand but you do have to also say Calzaghe beat everyone in front of him. He did his job and a prime Kessler if I am not mistaken and a prime Jeff Lacy. These two were no slouches. You can't blame Calzaghe who he fight's or doesn't fight he was a champion for a long period of time and did exactley what he was supposed to and beat everyone in front of him. Do also remember he beat the legend B-Hop convincingly and then B-Hop being embarrassed fought Kelly Pavlik and beat him easily. Calzaghe IMO is completley underrated on these boards. I would have put him in with any of the supermiddle's of his era and have him win.
Donald Curry at one time looked like he had all the tools.
yeah, thats fair enough, JC did beat everynoe put in front of him. Makes it a whole lot easier though,if you can handpick who is put in front of you.Quote:
Originally Posted by The FightfanQuote:
Originally Posted by johnmaff36With respect, i can understand you vouching for marciano and lopez, but calzaghe? JC was an above average champ at best, certainly no all-time great. I saw JC slag off Roy Jones jnr as, and i quote, "finished 4 or 5 years ago" and i agreed with him. He was right, jones was finished. But to turn round 6 months later (after he signed to fight him)and try to say that Jones still had gas in the tank is nothing short of insulting peoples intelligence. Have a look at his defences and tell me how many were in the top 10 of the other, more prestigeous governing bodies. I may be wrong but i counted 6. Now im not here to slag off calzaghe as he comes across as a decent enough guy and the name of the game is to make as much money as you can and get out with your senses intact, but to claim to be an all-time great is nonsense. Some people point to his unbeaten(and well padded) record but another british guy from basildon called terry marsh was an unbeaten world champion and im sure he wouldnt claim to be a superstar. Nowadays unbeaten records dont carry the clout they once did. Can you imagine if Valeuv hadnt lost to chagrev (i think) he'd have now broken marcianos record!!! Blasphemy!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fightfan
I understand but you do have to also say Calzaghe beat everyone in front of him. He did his job and a prime Kessler if I am not mistaken and a prime Jeff Lacy. These two were no slouches. You can't blame Calzaghe who he fight's or doesn't fight he was a champion for a long period of time and did exactley what he was supposed to and beat everyone in front of him. Do also remember he beat the legend B-Hop convincingly and then B-Hop being embarrassed fought Kelly Pavlik and beat him easily. Calzaghe IMO is completley underrated on these boards. I would have put him in with any of the supermiddle's of his era and have him win.
Y'all may think I am crazy, but Aaron Pryor.
He could find angles; he could box circles around good boxers. Maybe too much of an iron chin to be a perfect fighter. He was determined, squared up a lot because he always felt he was stronger than his opponents, but knew how to impose his will in the ring. Only thing I would take away from him is I wouldn't say he avoided a lot of unnecessary punishment.
... Which bring me back to an early point in this thread... Ali was definitely not a perfect fighter. Look at him now. He took way too much punishment in the ring.
Too many people ducked Pryor and of course the drugs later in life...
great call. Pryor was brilliant. i think he only lost to bobby joe young and that was about 4 or 5 years after he originally retired. Would love to know what was in that water bottle in the arguello fight ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
Aaron Pryor was very good but he was far from perfect, he constantly left his chin in the air. And he was far too wild at times, and he did lack some firepower, which may seem strange because he had a high KO percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
But he mostly stopped opponents with a barrage of punches, because he's swarming style was hard to counter against. Have you seen his fight against Gary Hinton ? he got outboxed for alot of that fight, and just about earned a decision because of his late round knockdown.
Aaron Pryor seems to get a bit overrated, because of his two wins against Alexis Arguello. Alexis Arguello was past his best and Jr Welterweight wasn't his best weight, Aaron Pryor was really good but we didn't ever seen him against an elite prime fighter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBAaron Pryor was very good but he was far from perfect, he constantly left his chin in the air. And he was far too wild at times, and he did lack some firepower, which may seem strange because he had a high KO percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
But he mostly stopped opponents with a barrage of punches, because he's swarming style was hard to counter against. Have you seen his fight against Gary Hinton ? he got outboxed for alot of that fight, and just about earned a decision because of his late round knockdown.
Aaron Pryor seems to get a bit overrated, because of his two wins against Alexis Arguello. Alexis Arguello was past his best and Jr Welterweight wasn't his best weight, Aaron Pryor was really good but we didn't ever seen him against an elite prime fighter.
You cannot be 19! You have too good a grasp of boxing knowledge to be 19. WTF!
then maybe ice should take a picture of himself while hes holding his ID in the same picture. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBAaron Pryor was very good but he was far from perfect, he constantly left his chin in the air. And he was far too wild at times, and he did lack some firepower, which may seem strange because he had a high KO percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
But he mostly stopped opponents with a barrage of punches, because he's swarming style was hard to counter against. Have you seen his fight against Gary Hinton ? he got outboxed for alot of that fight, and just about earned a decision because of his late round knockdown.
Aaron Pryor seems to get a bit overrated, because of his two wins against Alexis Arguello. Alexis Arguello was past his best and Jr Welterweight wasn't his best weight, Aaron Pryor was really good but we didn't ever seen him against an elite prime fighter.
You cannot be 19! You have too good a grasp of boxing knowledge to be 19. WTF!
LOL i've been watching boxing for years bro, my grandfather also used to tell me loads about boxing. And its so easy in this day and age to watch all the old classics, i mean youtube has countless fights. And you've got countless download links. I mean in one instance in a span of a week, i was able to download almost every single one of MAB, Pernell Whitaker, fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by holmcallQuote:
Originally Posted by ICBAaron Pryor was very good but he was far from perfect, he constantly left his chin in the air. And he was far too wild at times, and he did lack some firepower, which may seem strange because he had a high KO percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyFolds
But he mostly stopped opponents with a barrage of punches, because he's swarming style was hard to counter against. Have you seen his fight against Gary Hinton ? he got outboxed for alot of that fight, and just about earned a decision because of his late round knockdown.
Aaron Pryor seems to get a bit overrated, because of his two wins against Alexis Arguello. Alexis Arguello was past his best and Jr Welterweight wasn't his best weight, Aaron Pryor was really good but we didn't ever seen him against an elite prime fighter.
You cannot be 19! You have too good a grasp of boxing knowledge to be 19. WTF!
You know, I developed this software game that I call Boxing Trivia 21. You have 5 seconds to answer a question. First one to reach 21 wins ($$$). You might be good at it. :confused: $$$ :confused:
I'm impressed.
Was it not Mike McCallum that took him apart? Wait Honeygan did first. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by ICB
I remember Curry being touted as the next superstar, he certainly had the goods.
I'll throw into the mix Vitali Klitschko because I can't see him mentioned.
Perfect Chin
Excellent Power
Excellent Stamina and Conditioning
Technically Sound
Great Heart
Good Speed
Perfect Size
Great Movement
if you had to design a heavyweight you'd pretty much come up with him imo
How does Pernell Whitaker fair in this as well?
pernell whitaker.
the tools he possessed and the way he used them. amazes me everytime i watch his fights.