Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
I think the only fighters who could potentially beat Ward right now are Bute or Andre Dirrell (if he's the same after returning from layoff) but even still you would have to favor Ward in both those matchups based on his versatility.
Calzaghe would of beaten Ward in my opinion prime for prime. Ward tired late in the fight against Froch who wasn't really throwing or landing many punches. Calzaghe with his workrate would certainly test Wards conditioning.
I think Ward would be tricky for Joe in the first few rounds but then Calzaghe starts to get his rhythm going then ups the workrate eventually outworking Ward down the stretch.
I don't get the comparsions with Ward and Jones or Floyd,etc.
Andre Ward right now reminds me of an older Hopkins with a slightly higher workrate.
Ward like an older Hopkins picks his punches well and utilizes all his tools whether it be on the inside or outside.
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
One of the judges that had Froch-Ward 115-113 gave FRoch 4 of the first 5 rounds. He gave the last three to Ward. I don't think Froch's strong finish was really that impressive.
I honestly can't see a single reason why Froch would ever beat Ward.
They fight ten times it's 10 nil to Jesus.
Sounds like that judge had never seen a fight before
But the point isnt that froch had a strong finish, its that ward fades
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
Firstly, with respect to anyone who thinks that a second Froch-Ward fight would go any differently, Froch doesn't even think he could beat Ward. He's already said that he's the second-best 168-pounder, and that nobody can beat Ward at 168.
Secondly, it's a myth that Calzaghe cleaned out the 168-pound division. He beat many good fighters, but there were A LOT of top contenders that for one reason or another, he never took on. Pick up a random Ring Magazine from the Calzaghe era, and you'll see a lot of names in the top-5 of the 168-pound division that Calzaghe never got in the ring with. That doesn't mean that he wouldn't have beaten them; but it's just patently false that he beat all of the big names in the division.
Thirdly, since the Calzaghe fight, with the exception of the Ward fight, Kessler is 5-0 (4), including a solid win against the division's #3. So it's bullshit to discount Ward's victory by saying that Kessler is somehow markedly worse than he was against Calzaghe; it's just that Ward made him LOOK bad. The 2011 Ward is better than ANY year's Kessler, and Calzaghe, while he beat him decisively, hardly "destroyed" him. To say that Ward hasn't done against anyone else the types of things that he would need to go to beat Calzaghe misses the point; it doesn't imply that Ward is incapable of doing those things. He just hasn't needed to do them against anyone else. What Ward has shown is that to date, he can do whatever is needed to beat the people put in front of him. That doesn't mean that he necessarily would be able to adjust successfully against Calzaghe, but there's no particular reason to think that he wouldn't, either. IMO, 2011 Ward vs. (insert your favorite 168-pound year here) Calzaghe would be a close, competitive, and highly entertaining fight.
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
Look i like joe, but his creditbility deserved or not isn't really all that good in the boxing world,especially in the states. Calzaghe has shown to be way way more good but beatable than ward. Like the the two senior citizens that put him on his ass. Ward aint the greatest but geeeezzzz going out of your way to hate on the guy out of the blue as if you're still a factor in the sport is silly. Find something to do joe. Or help enzo or something.
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Cant believe what I'm hearing in this thread...if he scored a controversial decision against old Hopkins who people are comparing Ward to..what the fuck you think prime Ward does to him??
Calzaghe could adjust well i'll give him that..but Ward barely lost a round in the entire Super 6!
Come on its Calzaghe ffs..if anyone gets "over rated" in boxing its this pussy.
Ward would be way too smart for this fool..he will execute on Calzaghe without panicking..he fades in the last 2 rounds? So what if he's up 10 rounds??
Waste of time talking about it now calzaghe is retired. I would like to see hjm fight bute to decide who really is number one at the devision. Then fight Martinez. Martinez is always going on about fighting the best and if Ward beats Bute he is the best in that devision. So that is the dream match up I would like to see.
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Cant believe what I'm hearing in this thread...if he scored a controversial decision against old Hopkins who people are comparing Ward to..what the fuck you think prime Ward does to him??
Calzaghe could adjust well i'll give him that..but Ward barely lost a round in the entire Super 6!
Come on its Calzaghe ffs..if anyone gets "over rated" in boxing its this pussy.
Ward would be way too smart for this fool..he will execute on Calzaghe without panicking..he fades in the last 2 rounds? So what if he's up 10 rounds??
Hopkins was an easy win for Calzaghe. It was made ugly by Hopkins spoiling, but it was decisive and convincing. Calzaghe strolled on down to the finish from the 4th onwards. An opening blip, a little recalculation and then boom, Hopkins was nullified.
Ward is no Hopkins either. There are stylistic similarities, but also serious questions about Ward. He doesn't have stamina and would be blowing out of his bottom by the half way mark. As if Ward is going to put Calzaghe down or keep up with him. It is laughable.
Calzaghe is a pussy? He isn't the one trying to make beautiful manlove with his opponents every fight or rub his face in another man's face. He's horrible to watch, whilst Calzaghe in his pomp was exciting and full of non-spoiling action.
Ward would never be up 10 rounds against Calzaghe. Who on this earth has ever taken more than 4 rounds off of Calzaghe? A slow plodder like Froch was able to take 3 against Ward, does anyone think Calzaghe would tire against Froch or give rounds away. It is a ludicrous notion.
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
Admittedly there was a 'let's shag Hopkins' moment, but that was taunting. Ward does it because grappling is all he has, he couldn't outbox Calzaghe as he would be outworked, it would be back to the old 'let's have a hug and I will hit you on the break'. Calzaghe is quicker and would let his hands go with far more confidence than Ward who gets tired and holds and knows he cannot let the chin up for too long.
It's a mismatch really. Ward isn't terribly good and would get busted up over the long haul as Calzaghe punishes his opponents and doesn't stop them. What's Ward realistically going to do against Calzaghe? He has fought nobody like the guy, Calzaghe has already shown he can outwork dirty spoilers.
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
Cant believe what I'm hearing in this thread...if he scored a controversial decision against old Hopkins who people are comparing Ward to..what the fuck you think prime Ward does to him??
Calzaghe could adjust well i'll give him that..but Ward barely lost a round in the entire Super 6!
Come on its Calzaghe ffs..if anyone gets "over rated" in boxing its this pussy.
Ward would be way too smart for this fool..he will execute on Calzaghe without panicking..he fades in the last 2 rounds? So what if he's up 10 rounds??
Ward was good in the super six but barely lost a round is a bit much
He lost 4+ to froch, more to aa than either froch or dirrell did
He also fought green who noone lost a round to
Yes he won most of the rounds against kes (with his head)
Hes good mate but this is another example of someone over egging it
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Althugz
I dont over rate Ward at all. Froch sucks..he has no ring intelligence but can bang and has great stamina/chin.
But again..its easy for Calzaghe not to be a pussy when he's in the ring against shit opposition...he's a pussy for not fighting anybody of note in their prime.
For me Hopkins won the Calzaghe fight and almost every single boxer/trainer i spoke to felt the same. Ward would know exactly how to negate Calzaghe wild bitch slaps.
But like the poster after me said..no point discussing it now when he's retired..aka..PUSSY
Thats the last I speak on Joe the shite waste of talent Calzaghe
hopkins didnt beat calzaghe, the only issue i have with that fight was it was a split decision
Hopkins clearly won the first 4 rounds, with the knockdown he was 5 up
calzaghe clearly won the last 8
but at least the right man got the decision
you are obviously very down on him for some reason so theres not much point in having a argument about it with you
but to say froch sucks is a bit harsh, look at the two fighters routes to the final, froch has been brilliant for boxing and has made the super six a success despite losing the final
What would have happened if Froch woulnt have been in the competition? who would have made the final? what if Ward would have had to do the travelling that some of the other fighters did?
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
I have done a couple of polls on who people thought won between Hopkins and Calzaghe and Calzaghe always wins by a considerable margin. He outlanded Hopkins something silly.
And let's not pretend that that was Calzaghe at his best either. Withered hands and a high energy fighter at 36? Calzaghe was on the slide too, but he was still far too much for a savvy Hopkins. He always would have been as the younger Calzaghe would have hurt Hopkins more.
So Froch sucks and yet why did he win 3 rounds against Ward? Was it charity? Are we suggesting that Froch is in any comparable to the unorthodox, high output style of Calzaghe? It's nonsense and an obvious extension that Ward be taken into deep waters and lose a lot more rounds. I couldn't see him winning rounds against Calzaghe TBH. Early on for sure, but once the adjustments are made and Calzaghe is set on what he needs to do, Ward is done for.
Ward has beaten nobody that Calzaghe couldn't beat better. Ward is a novice and has so much more to do.
And Calzaghe did face in their prime fighters. Everyone overseas was saying Lacy would destroy Joe. Kessler was supposedly a pick 'em fight. Hindsight means those opponents are discounted, but pre injury Lacy was better than people say. Kessler was undefeated and hungry.
Wards biggest win is Kessler and Calzaghe beat him much more impressively.
Re: Joe Calzaghe: Andre Ward is good but beatable
I havent followed Wards career but have read a few times he used to try and fight like Jones. Is that up until he nearly got stopped by Boon? Has he changed in to Ruiz since then? Bika also had him holding for dear life during the last 2 rounds.
That is the only reason Ward is effective, the holding. Without that he has to fight. Calzaghe is about the only fighter that has the workrate, angles and speed to make Ward think twice about coming in. With Froch it was easy, hes not that quick and loads up, which probably is what makes him slow. If he has natural strength which everyone says he does, then he should concentrate on just being sharp and landing and not just one shot at a time. He would have done a hell of alot better and it would only take a win or 2 to get the rematch as now the super 6 is over, everyone is going to go back to avoiding each other. Froch is now in a pretty good position business wise as he is a beatable big name opponent who will travel. He even has Bute thinking of travelling for fuck sake!;D
