Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
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Originally Posted by
zhubin
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
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Originally Posted by
zhubin
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
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Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Zab Judah matched Mayweathers handspeed for a few. A one trick pony Mosley had him reeling. Norris was a very physical sort and a seriosuly underrated boxer when he resisted. Still ranked a "p4p" best, Taylor set out to box like the wind that night..all changed when Norris matched his renowned speed and it ended in the power. You can box all you want until a guy kicks in the front door on you.
Come on. Mosley landed what, 2 or 3 real good punches in the first or second round? Rocked Floyd good, then Floyd made the adjustments and shut him out for the rest of the fight. Did Zab land anything meaningful? Come on, you're grasping at straws here.
You can say Terry Norris beats Floyd at 154. I have no problem with anyone thinking that, because despite his MANY flaws, Terry was a dangerous motherfucker in there.
But don't tell me you think that because of what Terry did to a washed up MELDRICK TAYLOR. Meldrick and Mayweather are completely different animals. Completely different styles. Meldrick was slick, but not in a Mayweather kind of way.
The point was that Floyd is not impervious to fast hands and when you consider natural size, speed and power of Norris..mayweather has never faced anything close to that and stayed dry. Frankly Mosley fought a dumb fight after his brief window and he went out to actually try to box with Floyd. He adjusted too, away from any sliver of a chance.
The comparison was to pure speed and closing down an all time fast handed guy and chopping down ring real estate. Norris had some serious speed and that fight flipped on its head with Taylor having his gameplan stripped away in 2nd. And it was Norris going down in weight. Made me think of Norris boxing class round 1 vs Julian Jackson..then the power came, in brutal fashion. Clearly Taylor had not the master footwork or backseat boxing mentality of Mayweather, but the totally washed up and shot talk gets thrown around way too easily in hindsight today. Taylor wore scars from Chavez but he wasn't so washed up that he couldn't rise a division, shut out a respectable champion and beat a top contender going into Norris fight. Both were ranked p4p top fighters in the world for whatever thats worth and Taylor was numero uno in his division! That fight was a throw back type match and a shot in the arm for the sport.
Why are we using the Floyd that fought Shane as an example? Floyd in his early days had as good a foot movement as any fighter i have seen. Terry was one bad dude...but he hardly was tight on his defense. Mayweather is incredibly accurate and has tremendous movement. Norris never fought anyone who was as slick, smart, and defensively sound as Floyd. Of course ANY fighter can get caught with a big shot...Norris certainly did. Also, using the "slap and running" line is complete bs. Maybe...just maybe...that is why Mayweather has still has facilities but a fighter like Terry can't talk properly because of the punishment he took.
Well because when talking speed combined one shot power in hypothetical 150ish a Mosley, Oscar or Judah would have to be the fastest? Absolutley correct, Floyd had the mobility of a cheetah even more in his early days, but he was also a lightweight, a jr welterweight. Not many at all could compose the total slick and defensive of Floyd but likewise, Mayweather has faced nothing like the complete package that Norris brought in natural size, speed and one shot power off boxing ability. Norris aggression could backfire, but he showed he could just as quickly box like a fool the next time out and make adjustments in the heat. Its hypothetical of course. I also think the slap and run shot was a bit cheap and Terry knows the difference. Paul Vaden was literally slap and run and had his purse withheld as a result of that non effort.
You can also make the point that Norris never faced a fighter like Floyd. Floyd is a different kind of beast. I am not going to hold it against him for not being an "old school" fighter in terms of being "all action." And you are right...it's all hypothetical since Floyd's best weight is clearly not 154. I am never one to say a guy like Norris couldn't have won or had success against Floyd. But i think one has to be fair and say the opposite could be just as true.
Absolutley dude. Floyd is one for his generation to be commended. Regardless of opinion on style and approach he has made it work and his talent is obvious. I do think we get lost in different eras though and the ease with which they actually translate or transform into one another in this case. Its not like its some obscure B&W grainy time none of us can appreciate or relive without ease. This would have been a very fan friendly fisticuffs, great clash of style going in.
Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
Can we all just agree that if Mike Arnaoutis and Lolenga Mock had a baby, it would beat them both at once?
Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
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Originally Posted by
Master
You really cannot be objective when it comes to Floyd, when people point out weaknesees you do not accept them. OK, Terry may not have blasted out Floyd early but he would more than likely win.
For sure I can be objective about Floyd. I think he's as big a douchebag as everyone else does, but I'm not going to let the fact that I don't like him personally cloud my judgement of his in ring ability.
Like I said, if you think Terry Norris beats Floyd at 154lbs, that's completely fine. I have no problem with that. I'd pick Floyd to edge him out, but personally I think it's a toss up fight. In no way do I think it's a slam dunk for Mayweather. Terry could very well have knocked him out.
But the problem is, a lot of people either can't or refuse to grasp just how good Mayweather is in the ring. If you're comparing him to Meldrick Taylor, you really don't have a solid grasp of Mayweather's ability. If you're like Spicoli and you're saying that Mosley lost because he voluntarily stopped fighting after he rocked Floyd, you really don't have a solid grasp of Mayweather's ability. Not that I think you guys are ignorant, I just think you're letting your bias against Mayweather negatively effect your view of his in-ring abilities.
Floyd's flaws? What flaws were pointed out? That fast hands give him trouble? Who the fuck isn't troubled by fast hands? I don't consider it a weakness but as I said, Floyd has adjusted to every fast guy he's fought and dominated.
The guy's undefeated for a reason, and it's not the reason most people here believe (that he doesn't fight anybody good). He's been fighting on the championship level since 1998.
Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zhubin
You can also make the point that Norris never faced a fighter like Floyd. Floyd is a different kind of beast. I am not going to hold it against him for not being an "old school" fighter in terms of being "all action." And you are right...it's all hypothetical since Floyd's best weight is clearly not 154. I am never one to say a guy like Norris couldn't have won or had success against Floyd. But i think one has to be fair and say the opposite could be just as true.
Solid point. This has came up milliions of times over the years discussing hypothetical PBF opponents. "well Floyd has never fought anyone like X before." But the truth is, unless you've fought Sugar Ray Robinson, you haven't fought anyone who can be compared to Floyd Mayweather inside the ring in terms of straight up ability and intelligence.
Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
You really cannot be objective when it comes to Floyd, when people point out weaknesees you do not accept them. OK, Terry may not have blasted out Floyd early but he would more than likely win.
For sure I can be objective about Floyd. I think he's as big a douchebag as everyone else does, but I'm not going to let the fact that I don't like him personally cloud my judgement of his in ring ability.
Like I said, if you think Terry Norris beats Floyd at 154lbs, that's completely fine. I have no problem with that. I'd pick Floyd to edge him out, but personally I think it's a toss up fight. In no way do I think it's a slam dunk for Mayweather. Terry could very well have knocked him out.
But the problem is, a lot of people either can't or refuse to grasp just how good Mayweather is in the ring. If you're comparing him to Meldrick Taylor, you really don't have a solid grasp of Mayweather's ability. If you're like Spicoli and you're saying that Mosley lost because he voluntarily stopped fighting after he rocked Floyd, you really don't have a solid grasp of Mayweather's ability. Not that I think you guys are ignorant, I just think you're letting your bias against Mayweather negatively effect your view of his in-ring abilities.
Floyd's flaws? What flaws were pointed out? That fast hands give him trouble? Who the fuck isn't troubled by fast hands? I don't consider it a weakness but as I said, Floyd has adjusted to every fast guy he's fought and dominated.
The guy's undefeated for a reason, and it's not the reason most people here believe (that he doesn't fight anybody good). He's been fighting on the championship level since 1998.
Just because the guy is undefeated does not mean he has no weaknesses.
Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
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Originally Posted by
Master
Just because the guy is undefeated does not mean he has no weaknesses.
I never said he didn't. But I don't know what his weaknesses are and I've never heard anybody point out a real legit "weakness". A "weakness" suggests that a guy has a trait/skill/ect that is below what you'd expect for a professional (or in this case, champion) boxer.
You said if a guy could match handspeed with him, it could give him trouble. I think that's true for any fighter that ever lived. Nobody wants to fight a guy who's as fast or faster than they are. Speed troubles everyone.
I'm no Floyd nuthugger, I'm open to any criticism about his skills. If you think he has a real weakness, let me know what it is. What does Floyd do shitty? His power is mediocre at the higher weights, but not to the point where I'd call it a weakness.
Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
He has weak hands that are prone to breaking, and he doesn't have one-punch KO power at 147 and above. That's all I can think of. If anyone has any others to add to the list, let me know.
Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Just because the guy is undefeated does not mean he has no weaknesses.
I never said he didn't. But I don't know what his weaknesses are and I've never heard anybody point out a real legit "weakness". A "weakness" suggests that a guy has a trait/skill/ect that is below what you'd expect for a professional (or in this case, champion) boxer.
You said if a guy could match handspeed with him, it could give him trouble. I think that's true for any fighter that ever lived. Nobody wants to fight a guy who's as fast or faster than they are. Speed troubles everyone.
I'm no Floyd nuthugger, I'm open to any criticism about his skills. If you think he has a real weakness, let me know what it is. What does Floyd do shitty? His power is mediocre at the higher weights, but not to the point where I'd call it a weakness.
It is a weakness because it will not put off a great big light middleweight like Norris, Mcallum or Hearns. They would take chances that they would not ordinarily take just so they could hurt him.
Re: Terry Norris " Mayweather with all that slapping and running "
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
You really cannot be objective when it comes to Floyd, when people point out weaknesees you do not accept them. OK, Terry may not have blasted out Floyd early but he would more than likely win.
For sure I can be objective about Floyd. I think he's as big a douchebag as everyone else does, but I'm not going to let the fact that I don't like him personally cloud my judgement of his in ring ability.
Like I said, if you think Terry Norris beats Floyd at 154lbs, that's completely fine. I have no problem with that. I'd pick Floyd to edge him out, but personally I think it's a toss up fight. In no way do I think it's a slam dunk for Mayweather. Terry could very well have knocked him out.
But the problem is, a lot of people either can't or refuse to grasp just how good Mayweather is in the ring. If you're comparing him to Meldrick Taylor, you really don't have a solid grasp of Mayweather's ability. If you're like Spicoli and you're saying that Mosley lost because he voluntarily stopped fighting after he rocked Floyd, you really don't have a solid grasp of Mayweather's ability. Not that I think you guys are ignorant, I just think you're letting your bias against Mayweather negatively effect your view of his in-ring abilities.
Floyd's flaws? What flaws were pointed out? That fast hands give him trouble? Who the fuck isn't troubled by fast hands? I don't consider it a weakness but as I said, Floyd has adjusted to every fast guy he's fought and dominated.
The guy's undefeated for a reason, and it's not the reason most people here believe (that he doesn't fight anybody good). He's been fighting on the championship level since 1998.
Dude is it really necassary for you to twist shit up like that??? Thats not what I said. Mosley was only winning that fight by a ko, he hurt him, his corner did not emphasis or push it...thats fighting a dumb fucking fight. If you honestly think us ignit folk cannot see Mayweathers ability regardless and think Mosley 'let him back in' you might be the one in need of a grip and sporting a bias?. I'm pretty aware of the cause-effect during a bout after almost 3 decades and one man over another deciding how it evolves. Clearly ya think a bias is simply saying another fighter has a chance cause he got nothing but respect form this one here ffs.
