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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
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Originally Posted by slk123
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Julio Cesar Chavez vs Juan La Porte
James Toney vs Dave Tiberi.
Hey ICE, that's your 3rd JCC fight mentioned on this post. He must make your list of all time least favorite fighters.
Oh! oh!
They're on to you ICB. ;D
I like to think that the JCC vs. Pernell fight was just too hard to call I mean look at the rounds and look at who was the agressor, look at who was the more elusive, the one who fought entire rounds, the one who used more ring genralship.
How many times does the JCC-MT stoppage need to be disscused?
Going by the rules, which is what Steele is supposed to do cause hes ref. he did the right thing. Hes not a time keeper he is the ref.
A fighter got knocked down, he began to count he saw the fighter was hurt so he took the next rule.
Steele: Are you OK? Are you OK?
No answer from MT Steele looks at him again and waives it off.
By the rules of the sport MT lost, in peoples hearts he was robbed.
Unfortunately theres a difference there.
1 is a reality the other is an emotion.
Chavez got schooled Mick your excellent poster but this is were we disagree completey the first 6 rounds were close i had them even after 6 rounds then Whitaker really pulled away and won by 3 rounds on my scorecard even Chavez's fans knew Chavez lost i seem to remember them booing the decision and staying silent through out the fight because of how much Whitaker schooled Chavez i don't really want to get into the Taylor vs Chavez debate like i said two sides to the story i believe Taylor got robbed you believe it was fair lets leave it at that and whats your views on Juan La Porte vs Chavez ?? La Porte deserved to win my eyes and alot of people agree.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by Eli_jr24
Winky wright v.s Taylor
watch that fight again and tell me if Taylor deserved a draw. Wright won it clearly.
Well yes he did Wright didn't do anything in last round and left it in the hands of the judges it was very close fight certainly not a fight i would call a robbery.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Seems to be many votes for Holyfield Lewis 1...
+1.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by brazilianbomber
I am sure that there will be many different opinions on this subject but I have to go with Pernell Whitaker Vs Julio Ceasar Chavez even though I am sure the Oscar fans will say the Tito fight.
Wilfedo Vasquez V's Carlos Rios. The worst decision of all time.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Lewis V Holyfield 1....Lewis clearly won this fight, i had it 116-112 ! Result Draw
Lewis v Holyfield 2....Holyfield clearly won this fight, i had it 117-111 ! Result Lewis UD
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Lewis V Holyfield 1....Lewis clearly won this fight, i had it 116-112 ! Result Draw
Lewis v Holyfield 2....Holyfield clearly won this fight, i had it 117-111 ! Result Lewis UD
I had Lewis winning both fights, but the second one by a smaller margin.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by ChuckNorris
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Lewis V Holyfield 1....Lewis clearly won this fight, i had it 116-112 ! Result Draw
Lewis v Holyfield 2....Holyfield clearly won this fight, i had it 117-111 ! Result Lewis UD
I had Lewis winning both fights, but the second one by a smaller margin.
Yeah Lewis won both
When I think of the biggets robberies I think of Barrera - Morales 1 and Lewis- Holyfield 1 . Both were avenged so its all good
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
what about Holyfield getting robbed in the olympics
or Roy Jones getting robbed in the Olympics
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Max Schmeling-Jack Sharkey II
Kid Diamond - Miguel Angel Huerta
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
most of sven ottke world titles wins...
De la hoya v sturm...
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Lewis V Holyfield 1....Lewis clearly won this fight, i had it 116-112 ! Result Draw
Lewis v Holyfield 2....Holyfield clearly won this fight, i had it 117-111 ! Result Lewis UD
So by your scoring 2nd fight was even more of robbery than the 1st ?? no way bro.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by Preme
most of sven ottke world titles wins...
De la hoya v sturm...
Robin Reid vs Sven Ottke comes to mind :-\
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Preme
most of sven ottke world titles wins...
De la hoya v sturm...
Robin Reid vs Sven Ottke comes to mind :-\
reid, brewer, johnson, mitchel... and some of them on more than one ocasion...
always wondered why at some point the ABC organisations didnt step in ad sort something out, a netural ground or something coz thee were numerous ottke fights that it was without question he lost... i mean we are not tlaking about close fights - full out and out clear cut everysingle person who aint one of his fan boys would swear down it was a loss...
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
For what it's worth, Larry Merchant was asked once to name the worst decision he'd ever seen, and he said it was a tie between Whitaker-Chavez and Lewis-Holyifeld I.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by Preme
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Preme
most of sven ottke world titles wins...
De la hoya v sturm...
Robin Reid vs Sven Ottke comes to mind :-\
reid, brewer, johnson, mitchel... and some of them on more than one ocasion...
always wondered why at some point the ABC organisations didnt step in ad sort something out, a netural ground or something coz thee were numerous ottke fights that it was without question he lost... i mean we are not tlaking about close fights - full out and out clear cut everysingle person who aint one of his fan boys would swear down it was a loss...
I always thought Ottke was a fraud he should have atleast 3 losses he had decent skills but overall was a fraud imo and was lucky to have judges and ref on his side he was scared shitless of Calzaghe aswell i know Calzaghe hasn't fought best opposition but atleast he beats them convincly all except 1 out of 40+ fights.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
All I can say is that the word "robbery" is over used in the sport of boxing. It no longer carries the weight that it should due to the fans voice being louder at times than it should be.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Preme
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Preme
most of sven ottke world titles wins...
De la hoya v sturm...
Robin Reid vs Sven Ottke comes to mind :-\
reid, brewer, johnson, mitchel... and some of them on more than one ocasion...
always wondered why at some point the ABC organisations didnt step in ad sort something out, a netural ground or something coz thee were numerous ottke fights that it was without question he lost... i mean we are not tlaking about close fights - full out and out clear cut everysingle person who aint one of his fan boys would swear down it was a loss...
I always thought Ottke was a fraud he should have atleast 3 losses he had decent skills but overall was a fraud imo and was lucky to have judges and ref on his side he was scared shitless of Calzaghe aswell i know Calzaghe hasn't fought best opposition but atleast he beats them convincly all except 1 out of 40+ fights.
I don't really blame ottke tho... and i'm not certain it was he who was scared of joe...
sven had very very good skills i thought, he was just small and had NO power a all, it was alays going to hold him back when most of the guys he fought had very good power and could box...
The thing with ottke was he was love din germany, and germany are massive about their boxing, so he would fight 3-4 imes a year and get paid a shit load for it... he wouldn;t ofbeen alowed to leav germany even if he wnated to, and he was never going to be able to fight calzaghe even if he wanted to, no judge in the world would of given him the win that night, joe was to good and would of won it out right, prolly stopped him then to as sven would never of been able to hurt him.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by ChuckNorris
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Lewis V Holyfield 1....Lewis clearly won this fight, i had it 116-112 ! Result Draw
Lewis v Holyfield 2....Holyfield clearly won this fight, i had it 117-111 ! Result Lewis UD
I had Lewis winning both fights, but the second one by a smaller margin.
I'm amazed by this, Lewis clearly won the first fight but i must have missed something in the second fight because i thought Holyfield schooled him and i never gave a round to Lewis until the 9th and even that was a charity.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Marquez vs Pacquaio. 3 knockdowns and still the former win by a draw.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by brucelee
Marquez vs Pacquaio. 3 knockdowns and still the former win by a draw.
Just because there was 3 knockdowns doesn't make it a robbery Marquez won more of the rounds i had Pac edging it but only just but controversy is with that one judge who didn't score the first round 10-6 because if he did Pac would of won.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
'Mantequilla' over 'El Hombre' I
That has got to be one of the worst. I mean the fight is stopped due to a cut on Napoles eye that was caused by a punch and the ref. stops the fight and then suddenly Jose Sulaiman (WBC President) the judges and the ref. all huddle up and decide to somehow god knows why award Napoles the win. ???
WTF?
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
jack dempsey and gene tunney famous long count
imo briggs adamek 2
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by brucelee
Marquez vs Pacquaio. 3 knockdowns and still the former win by a draw.
Just because there was 3 knockdowns doesn't make it a robbery Marquez won more of the rounds i had Pac edging it but only just but controversy is with that one judge who didn't score the first round 10-6 because if he did Pac would of won.
It was robbery considering that they did not correct the judge's score after the judge admitted his error.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Don King and Mike Tyson
Robin Givens and Mike Tyson
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by brucelee
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by brucelee
Marquez vs Pacquaio. 3 knockdowns and still the former win by a draw.
Just because there was 3 knockdowns doesn't make it a robbery Marquez won more of the rounds i had Pac edging it but only just but controversy is with that one judge who didn't score the first round 10-6 because if he did Pac would of won.
It was robbery considering that they did not correct the judge's score after the judge admitted his error.
This has to be the worst inclusion. That was in no shape or form a robbery and justice was served by the making the error. JMM should have won that fight but it was close either way.
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Originally Posted by CutMeMick
'Mantequilla' over 'El Hombre' I
That has got to be one of the worst. I mean the fight is stopped due to a cut on Napoles eye that was caused by a punch and the ref. stops the fight and then suddenly Jose Sulaiman (WBC President) the judges and the ref. all huddle up and decide to somehow god knows why award Napoles the win. ???
WTF?
;D ;D
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Originally Posted by 'Big' Dan McCarthy
All I can say is that the word "robbery" is over used in the sport of boxing. It no longer carries the weight that it should due to the fans voice being louder at times than it should be.
I totally agree but let me word it differently. There are far too many fans that think just because their favourite fighter lost,it was a robbery when in fact the fight was close. Far too many close fights are viewed as robberies nowadays when in actual fact,very few are.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I totally agree but let me word it differently. There are far too many fans that think just because their favourite fighter lost,it was a robbery when in fact the fight was close. Far too many close fights are viewed as robberies nowadays when in actual fact,very few are.
Well said mate. For me, it would have to be a serious miscarriage of justice to make it a robbery. When it's a round or two either way, I think you have to admit that judges can give it either way, as they all have seperate views of the fight, and sometimes slightly different criteria for judging.
In order to make it a robbery....I think the judges would have to get at least four or five rounds which were quite clearly to one fighter wrong.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
I totally agree but let me word it differently. There are far too many fans that think just because their favourite fighter lost,it was a robbery when in fact the fight was close. Far too many close fights are viewed as robberies nowadays when in actual fact,very few are.
Well said mate. For me, it would have to be a serious miscarriage of justice to make it a robbery. When it's a round or two either way, I think you have to admit that judges can give it either way, as they all have seperate views of the fight, and sometimes slightly different criteria for judging.
In order to make it a robbery....I think the judges would have to get at least four or five rounds which were quite clearly to one fighter wrong.
Totally agree brother,well said.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Any One Mention Dave Tiberi v.James Toney?Toney Was Gassed From Bell 1.There Are Alot Of Unjust Decisions ,Way To Many.One Major "fix" Had To Be One I Saw On Univision When They Did Those 1 bout Sunday Morning shows.martin a. coggi v.Eder Gonzalaz.I Think Coggi Actually Got The tko but man the ref Had to be Payed Off.I Remember He Actually Was Holding Coggi Up In The Corner,after Gonzalez clocked Him big,giving Him All Kinds Of Time And Whispering In Coggis Ear.It Just Stands Out To This Day.If I Remember Right The Ref Was Banned For Life After?Foggy On tHe Details right now,Gotta Go pull It Off The Shelf.Instant Replay Is Way Past Due .
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins
Any One Mention Dave Tiberi v.James Toney?Toney Was Gassed From Bell 1.There Are Alot Of Unjust Decisions ,Way To Many.One Major "fix" Had To Be One I Saw On Univision When They Did Those 1 bout Sunday Morning shows.martin a. coggi v.Eder Gonzalaz.I Think Coggi Actually Got The tko but man the ref Had to be Payed Off.I Remember He Actually Was Holding Coggi Up In The Corner,after Gonzalez clocked Him big,giving Him All Kinds Of Time And Whispering In Coggis Ear.It Just Stands Out To This Day.If I Remember Right The Ref Was Banned For Life After?Foggy On tHe Details right now,Gotta Go pull It Off The Shelf.Instant Replay Is Way Past Due .
Yea i mentioned that one bro Tiberi never fought again because he was so disgusted even though he was in his prime what a shame :(
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Nugyen/Lubaczewski
Stopped on a flash knockdown with no count
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli Surfs In 'Nawlins
Any One Mention Dave Tiberi v.James Toney?Toney Was Gassed From Bell 1.There Are Alot Of Unjust Decisions ,Way To Many.One Major "fix" Had To Be One I Saw On Univision When They Did Those 1 bout Sunday Morning shows.martin a. coggi v.Eder Gonzalaz.I Think Coggi Actually Got The tko but man the ref Had to be Payed Off.I Remember He Actually Was Holding Coggi Up In The Corner,after Gonzalez clocked Him big,giving Him All Kinds Of Time And Whispering In Coggis Ear.It Just Stands Out To This Day.If I Remember Right The Ref Was Banned For Life After?Foggy On tHe Details right now,Gotta Go pull It Off The Shelf.Instant Replay Is Way Past Due .
Yea i mentioned that one bro Tiberi never fought again because he was so disgusted even though he was in his prime what a shame :(
GOOD JOB,CC TO yA.hE Was like A Machine That Day.Some One Told Me He Ran For State Office Or Something.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
Lewis V Holyfield 1....Lewis clearly won this fight, i had it 116-112 ! Result Draw
Lewis v Holyfield 2....Holyfield clearly won this fight, i had it 117-111 ! Result Lewis UD
So by your scoring 2nd fight was even more of robbery than the 1st ?? no way bro.
I see what you mean with my scoring but 116-112 is still pretty conclusive for Lewis in the first fight. I just thought Holyfield did a great job in fight two and Lewis was lazy, i gave holyfield the last round as well because Lewis just didn't do enough in that round.
You will always get discrepancies with scorecards, take Mosley V DLH for example, Mosley gets a MD decision over DLH in their first fight and he clearly won it, yet in fight two he gets a UD when i thought he lost it 115-113. (Neither of those fights were robberies by the way, although DLH was stiff to lose fight two) It's still Whitaker V Chavez at the top of my list as far as robberies are concerned.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Hagler-Antuofermo I.
Just watched that fight again, Hagler won at least 10 rounds. Cossell's commentary was a disgrace in that fight. Hagler would land these vicious uppercuts and straight lefts to no comment, then Vito would land a wild, glancing right hand as he was lunging in and Cossell would scream that Hagler was hurt. Marvelous boxed beautifully and got the best of most of the slugging exchanges that took place in the later rounds.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by Britkid
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Originally Posted by raleights
true, but it stopped ottke :)
Being featherfisted did not stop Ottke creating a better legacy. What cost him, were them robberies; he already had a boring style of fighting, so that is going to annoy a lot of people, and then when he started getting hometown decisions in his favour, he pissed these people off even more.
That is why Ottke does not get the credit his career deserves, but I am sure he does not care, because he got more money, by making title defences, with a title that should of belonged to other people.
Why does his boxing career deserve any credit when he got loads of hometown, gift decision and he fought his hold career without going on the road for whole career. The guys signature wins are close decisions against Robin Reid, Charles Brewer, and Anthony Mundine with 10 fights under his belt.
He actually gets more credit than he deserves - and lots more cash, too. He was a B-grade fighter, and it seems like he knew he was a B-grade fighter, because he never even tried to take on an A-grade fighter. From a business POV, he deserves credit, but from a boxing perspective, he was way overrated and he deserves every bit of the crap he takes.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
floyd patterson-jimmy ellis. paterson should have been the first 3 time heavyweight champ
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
I am so sick of hearing that leonard vs hagler was a robbery it was a close fight and i think leornard put on a hell of a performance and thought he won but i love SRL so i am biased but if you like haggler you could say he won but your biased as well i think it was a close fight and not a robbery at all so i am sick of hearing about it but i happy though cause it goes down as a win for leornard so i am not bitter
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
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Originally Posted by Mr140
I am so sick of hearing that leonard vs hagler was a robbery it was a close fight and i think leornard put on a hell of a performance and thought he won but i love SRL so i am biased but if you like haggler you could say he won but your biased as well i think it was a close fight and not a robbery at all so i am sick of hearing about it but i happy though cause it goes down as a win for leornard so i am not bitter
You are right, it was a close fight. Hagler should have won by a round or two, but the judges bought Leonards smoke and mirrors and Hagler fought a stupid fight. If Hagler was less stubourn and was a little more active, the fight would have been his. I disagree with the decision, but I don't think the JUDGES "stole it" from Hagler, and in fact, complaining about Hagler getting robbed by judges is like complaining that something got stolen out of your car when you didn't lock it.
As far as the scoring goes, it wasn't robbery, not at all. But in a way, Leonard did steal the fight. Here's the thing that creases me about that fight and makes it seem a little like robbery to me. Hear me out. Leonard never intended to really "Win" the decisively. His whole gameplan was to steal rounds. He admits this this. If you listen to him, he is proud of it. His whole gameplan was to steal the fight. He could never BEAT Hagler in the real sense of the word...land more effect blows than he took, but he could land a lot of shoeshine and slaps. There has never been a fighter alive who could play to the judges as well as SRL and probably only Ali could execute use his brains as well in the ring.
If you are a Leonard fan, you say, fine, that's good enough, he impressed the judges and made it close enough to give himself a chance to win a slim decision. If you are Hagler fan, even you can admit, like me, that it was very close on points, you think SLR performance was all style and no substance.
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
has to be jones in the olympics
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Re: What's the biggest boxing robbery of all time.
Well SeanE nice reply and cc for a good answer it seems like you are reasonable when it comes to your judgemeant
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Worst Result
What is the worst result you have ever seen, and then had the most impact on the career of the losing fighter?
De La Hoya v Felix Sturm - Sturm had to wait 2 years before getting another title shot
Ali v Norton 3 - Norton is never remembered in the same light of Frazier, Foreman and Ali, but another win over Ali could have seen him up there
Sven Ottke v Mads Larson - Larson was never the same fighter and took years out of the sport because of the decision
Joel Casamayor v Jose Santa Cruz - Casamayor has gone on to beat Katsidis and is lining up a fight with Nate Campbell or Juan Diaz while Santa Cruz is left to re build his career
