Vasquez Vs. Marquez and Caballero Vs. Lacierva RBR

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok so the big question, does this make Isreal Vazquez p4p?

I think if anything it exposes Marquez as being overatted more than Vazquez being a great. What are your thought?

A good post topic for tommorrow I think.

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I don't think it makes Marquez over rated...Vasquez is not some ham and egger.....this is a former champion and the first fight was a smoker...If not for the nose who knows how it would have ended.....

A bit early stoppage...maybe but lets be real the KO was coming...Marquez was hurt.....and Vasquez was getting stronger he knew he needed to end things quick...he was a fighter on a mission

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I know Vazquez is no bum I just think a true p4p fighter would be able to control him. If Floyd, Winky or B Hop were featherweights I'm sure they would pitch virtual shutouts against him.

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That statement makes no sense. No need to even bring other fighters from completely different weight classes into the discussion. You have no idea how Floyd, Winky, or Bernard would have reacted...since none of them have been in that particular situation. Vasquez is a great fighter with great power. The stoppage came a bit early...but he clearly had Marquez in trouble. Marquez is definitely not "overrated". These two should fight once more...it has been an exciting and brutal first two fights. I also think Vasquez showed great class at the end by putting the belt around Marquez and saying a third match will definitely happen.

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Originally Posted by zhubin

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

Ok so the big question, does this make Isreal Vazquez p4p?

I think if anything it exposes Marquez as being overatted more than Vazquez being a great. What are your thought?

A good post topic for tommorrow I think.

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I don't think it makes Marquez over rated...Vasquez is not some ham and egger.....this is a former champion and the first fight was a smoker...If not for the nose who knows how it would have ended.....

A bit early stoppage...maybe but lets be real the KO was coming...Marquez was hurt.....and Vasquez was getting stronger he knew he needed to end things quick...he was a fighter on a mission

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I know Vazquez is no bum I just think a true p4p fighter would be able to control him. If Floyd, Winky or B Hop were featherweights I'm sure they would pitch virtual shutouts against him.

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That statement makes no sense. No need to even bring other fighters from completely different weight classes into the discussion. You have no idea how Floyd, Winky, or Bernard would have reacted...since none of them have been in that particular situation. Vasquez is a great fighter with great power. The stoppage came a bit early...but he clearly had Marquez in trouble. Marquez is definitely not "overrated". These two should fight once more...it has been an exciting and brutal first two fights. I also think Vasquez showed great class at the end by putting the belt around Marquez and saying a third match will definitely happen.

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I disagree, B Hop and Winky both schooled Trinidad another come forward banger, albiet a better fighter than Vazquez. If Floyd was fighting at that weight he would school Vazquez, so would probably most of the top 10 p4p guys out there.

He's basically like Diego Coralles, a great fighter but one who the truly elite shouldn't lose to.

Jim Gray is a dumb ass...Vargas says in reply to Mayorga calling him fat,"I got something fat for you.", Jim Gray asks what it is..what a dumb fuck. Mayorge says that Vargas looks like his baby's ass round and fat, lol.

Huge round of applause to Vasquez for that :appl: what heart and determination he showed tonight...

This is BIG man, this could possibly be one of the best most even trilogies in history....

1 things for sure the 3rd match will be huge and in Vegas.

I'm wondering how Marquez will handle this loss, I mean the guy ain't lost since 2000 that's 7 fwocken yrs. without tasting defeat....
Will he cope with the loss and come back strong?
Or
Will the loss effect his spirit and just haunt him?

I was wrong with my prediction but another FOTY contender,great stuff. Everything was on display,heart,courage and it's not just 2 stupid bangers with no brains,both guys have great boxing brains. The difference this time was Vazquez used his jab much much more which allowed him to get inside more often where he is more dangerous and Marquez didnt use the jab enough/enough lateral movement. PLus he was careless with his defence when Israel threw the left hook.

Bilbo,justify your comment that Vazquez is not someone the elite would lose to,that he sucks etc. What is the basis for a comment like that?? He has heart,courage and good boxing skills. Defensively he is open but if a P4P puncher like Rafa cannot put him down,few can. He also showed his intelligence and the work they have done in the gym because he used his jab to much greater effect last night.

Marquez had not lost in 7 years so how does that make him over rated? I have a feeling you either have not seen much or do not know much about either fighter at all. Both have P4P skills.

And saying if Floyd Winky BhOp were that weight,they would school Vazquez and Marquez because they beat Tito is poor. So going by that thinking, B Hop lost to JT, and P4P Marquez is far more active,hits far more harder and is far more skilled than JT so he would beat Hopkins? P4P Vazquez is far better than Julio Cesar Vazquez so he beats Winky? It's easy to use the P4P concept like that.And it makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by El Gamo

I was wrong with my prediction but another FOTY contender,great stuff. Everything was on display,heart,courage and it's not just 2 stupid bangers with no brains,both guys have great boxing brains. The difference this time was Vazquez used his jab much much more which allowed him to get inside more often where he is more dangerous and Marquez didnt use the jab enough/enough lateral movement. PLus he was careless with his defence when Israel threw the left hook.

Bilbo,justify your comment that Vazquez is not someone the elite would lose to,that he sucks etc. What is the basis for a comment like that?? He has heart,courage and good boxing skills. Defensively he is open but if a P4P puncher like Rafa cannot put him down,few can. He also showed his intelligence and the work they have done in the gym because he used his jab to much greater effect last night.

Marquez had not lost in 7 years so how does that make him over rated? I have a feeling you either have not seen much or do not know much about either fighter at all. Both have P4P skills.

And saying if Floyd Winky BhOp were that weight,they would school Vazquez and Marquez because they beat Tito is poor. So going by that thinking, B Hop lost to JT, and P4P Marquez is far more active,hits far more harder and is far more skilled than JT so he would beat Hopkins? P4P Vazquez is far better than Julio Cesar Vazquez so he beats Winky? It's easy to use the P4P concept like that.And it makes no sense.

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yea bilbo doesn't like the smaller guys because he thinks anyone bigger can just beat them because they are small.

vasquez has always been a top p4p 15 in my books, he just boost himself up into top 10 p4p now. Which I knew he'll do after all him winning me a few hundreds last night ;D

I just thought that even in the first fight marquez ran into a guy as good as him, unfortunately vazquez had that nose injury coming into the fight. As a smart fighter like rafa, rafa went after that nose with his jabs. That was the end of that, everybody hated on vazquez for quiting. Although for me, he made a wise move. Accept defeat to fight another day.

And that day came last night, I knew he'd get redemption against marquez. My confidence rose up I believe in the second round. When vazquez caught rafa hard with a left hook. From there own, rafa had his moments but vazquez was coming forward showing whos truely the better and stronger fighter.

One last thing, anybody who thinks that was a quick stoppage needs to re-watch in again and watch those fighters that have been injured permenantly after getting pounded specially how dangerous it is to be pounded by a p4pder like vazquez. Rafa was just trying to survive, those one or two punches he throw while trying to survive wasn't fooling anybody that knows the game. Rafa was in gigantic trouble, he was hurt bad.

Is all I know is that was a war from start to finish, and though I think it was stopped a tad early, I hope they do it again. I think Marquez might have recovered, as they were going back and forth with the hurting, though Marquez did seem pretty bad at the time of the stoppage. It wasn't going 2 more rounds regardless, as those eyes of Vasquez were getting totally screwed. Another awesome night of fights, this year keeps getting better and better.

I don't think the stoppage was that bad. When you watch a slow-motion replay, I can see where it looks a little premature.
But watching it live as it happened, I thought it was a decent stoppage, and the first instinct is always the best one. Also, I always pay attention to the fighter's reaction when a stoppage occurs. I didn't see any big protest from Marquez when the ref stepped in. That usually tells me that he was hurt and needed the ref to step in.

If I'm a ref, I'd rather stop a fight 2 or 3 punches too soon than 2 or 3 too late.

I think he was going to get k.o.'d if it went any furthur, but Marquez could have gotten a standing 8 count from the ref when he went backwards into the ropes. It could have counted as a kd for Vasquez and given Marquez a chance to regroup. Seeing that Marquez didnt like the stoppage I think he would fought on.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

I think he was going to get k.o.'d if it went any furthur, but Marquez could have gotten a standing 8 count from the ref when he went backwards into the ropes. It could have counted as a kd for Vasquez and given Marquez a chance to regroup. Seeing that Marquez didnt like the stoppage I think he would fought on.

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If the fight was under the unified rules, then there is no standing 8 count.

I had faith ;D. Another fight would be amazing, lets hope it happens.

good work No Contest CC ;)

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Originally Posted by SweetPea

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Originally Posted by No Contest

I think he was going to get k.o.'d if it went any furthur, but Marquez could have gotten a standing 8 count from the ref when he went backwards into the ropes. It could have counted as a kd for Vasquez and given Marquez a chance to regroup. Seeing that Marquez didnt like the stoppage I think he would fought on.

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If the fight was under the unified rules, then there is no standing 8 count.

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Damn, I am all for the standing 8 counts..why would they not have them?

Check out what i just found hahaha

That guy making a prat of himself looks strangely familiar :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzTznBnK5HA

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Originally Posted by 1-hit Wonder

Check out what i just found hahaha

That guy making a prat of himself looks strangely familiar :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzTznBnK5HA

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That guy does look really familiar.......

I've seen him around..... I hear hes a top notch fella who likes to attend fights and have a great time.... ;)

If you just found that video then I take it you missed the *Exclusive* thread. ;)

http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxing_fo...c,43924.0.html