Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
bilbo Scores big. cc man.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Ok top of my head.
1. Mayweather.
2. Pacquaio
3. Hopkins
4. JM Marquez
5. W Wright
6. Vazquez
7. R Marquez
8. Hatton
9. Calzaghe
10.Cotto
Personally I think Hatton and maybe Calzaghe could be above Vazquez and Marquez as they are unbeaten but the two little guys have fought the better competition.
Then from 11 to 20 as follows, not really thought about this so maybe some could be wrong.
11. Kessler
12. Mosely
13. Calderon
14. Pavlik
15. Taylor
16. Casamayor
17. De La Hoya
18. Barrera
19. Klitschko
20. Juan Diaz
Again I may have missed a couple but roughly I'd say about that.
Barrera is hard to rate, could be much higher, could be lower we will see after Saturday. Taylor doesn't slip far, he's still a stellar fighter and the fight with Pavlik could really have gone either way.
Cory Spinks deserves a mention, Tarver is still a threat, Jones still has tremendous talent and then there are dangerous guys like Guzman, Soto, Williams, Cintron, Margarito, Mormeck, Bell etc.
Some great fighters out there and you can see that the top 10 p4p really is an elite level, Pavlik ain't there yet.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
Thats totally different because Douglas was not even known name and had one great peformance Pavlik has beaten the two best Middleweights in the world and KO both of them he deserves to be in top 10 somewhere.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Ok top of my head.
1. Mayweather.
2. Pacquaio
3. Hopkins
4. JM Marquez
5. W Wright
6. Vazquez
7. R Marquez
8. Hatton
9. Calzaghe
10.Cotto
Personally I think Hatton and maybe Calzaghe could be above Vazquez and Marquez as they are unbeaten but the two little guys have fought the better competition.
Then from 11 to 20 as follows, not really thought about this so maybe some could be wrong.
11. Kessler
12. Mosely
13. Calderon
14. Pavlik
15. Taylor
16. Casamayor
17. De La Hoya
18. Barrera
19. Klitschko
20. Juan Diaz
Again I may have missed a couple but roughly I'd say about that.
So you rate Hopkins at 3 yet Taylor beat him twice and rate Winky at 5 and Taylor drawed with Wright but Pavlik KO Taylor something Hopkins and Wright couldn't do and they are in your top 5 P4P so don't you think Pavlik deserves to be top 10 ??
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
Thats totally different because Douglas was not even known name and had one great peformance Pavlik has beaten the two best Middleweights in the world and KO both of them he deserves to be in top 10 somewhere.
See my above list Ice, you can't make a case for him replacing any of those guys in the top 10 in my view. All of them multiple world champs, THE men in their respective divisions and some all time greats.
One world title fight doesn't make you top 10 p4p.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Ok top of my head.
1. Mayweather.
2. Pacquaio
3. Hopkins
4. JM Marquez
5. W Wright
6. Vazquez
7. R Marquez
8. Hatton
9. Calzaghe
10.Cotto
Personally I think Hatton and maybe Calzaghe could be above Vazquez and Marquez as they are unbeaten but the two little guys have fought the better competition.
Then from 11 to 20 as follows, not really thought about this so maybe some could be wrong.
11. Kessler
12. Mosely
13. Calderon
14. Pavlik
15. Taylor
16. Casamayor
17. De La Hoya
18. Barrera
19. Klitschko
20. Juan Diaz
Again I may have missed a couple but roughly I'd say about that.
So you rate Hopkins at 3 yet Taylor beat him twice and rate Winky at 5 and Taylor drawed with Wright and Pavlik KO Taylor something Hopkins and Wright couldn't do and they are in your top 5 P4P so don't you think Pavlik deserves to be top 10 ??
Yes because the p4p rankings arn't based off a single result Ice. Hopkins is the longest reigning middleweight champ ever, lost two controversial losses to Taylor, then moved up 2 divisions to beat the MAN at 175 and has also beaten the other great middleweight fighter in Winky Wright.
Wright was THE man in the 154 lb division, almost beat Taylor, many felt he did and was fighting well above his natural weight in his last fight.
Taylor beat a legend in Hopkins TWICE, drew with another top 3 p4p guy in Wright and defended his title 4 times.
Pavlik needs to do more than just win a single fight to enter the top 10 p4p rankings.
If not what happens if they rematch in 6 months and Taylor wins? Do you put Taylor back up 20 places to Top 5 or 6 and demote Pavlik 10 places?
That's just schizophrenic rankings.
A place in the top 10 p4p is earned through consistently proving yourself the best. Pavlik needs to defend his belt before he can say that.
If he beats Taylor again he'll make my top 10 ;)
And Miranda isn't one of the best two middleweights in the world Ice. If my memory serves me correctly he lost a UD to Arthur Abraham last year, making HIM above him. Add Taylor and Winky and Miranda wasn't top 3 although still a legitimate challenge.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Well bilbo give use your list so i can see what is in your head for the top ten guys ok
Ok top of my head.
1. Mayweather.
2. Pacquaio
3. Hopkins
4. JM Marquez
5. W Wright
6. Vazquez
7. R Marquez
8. Hatton
9. Calzaghe
10.Cotto
Personally I think Hatton and maybe Calzaghe could be above Vazquez and Marquez as they are unbeaten but the two little guys have fought the better competition.
Then from 11 to 20 as follows, not really thought about this so maybe some could be wrong.
11. Kessler
12. Mosely
13. Calderon
14. Pavlik
15. Taylor
16. Casamayor
17. De La Hoya
18. Barrera
19. Klitschko
20. Juan Diaz
Again I may have missed a couple but roughly I'd say about that.
So you rate Hopkins at 3 yet Taylor beat him twice and rate Winky at 5 and Taylor drawed with Wright and Pavlik KO Taylor something Hopkins and Wright couldn't do and they are in your top 5 P4P so don't you think Pavlik deserves to be top 10 ??
Yes because the p4p rankings arn't based off a single result Ice. Hopkins is the longest reigning middleweight champ ever, lost two controversial losses to Taylor, then moved up 2 divisions to beat the MAN at 175 and has also beaten the other great middleweight fighter in Winky Wright.
Wright was THE man in the 154 lb division, almost beat Taylor, many felt he did and was fighting well above his natural weight in his last fight.
Taylor beat a legend in Hopkins TWICE, drew with another top 3 p4p guy in Wright and defended his title 4 times.
Pavlik needs to do more than just win a single fight to enter the top 10 p4p rankings.
If not what happens if they rematch in 6 months and Taylor wins? Do you put Taylor back up 20 places to Top 5 or 6 and demote Pavlik 10 places?
That's just schizophrenic rankings.
A place in the top 10 p4p is earned through consistently proving yourself the best. Pavlik needs to defend his belt before he can say that.
If he beats Taylor again he'll make my top 10 ;)
I can see where your coming from and i understand your point i think Pavlik will clean out Middleweight division i wouldn't mind him beating Taylor again then beating Abraham and then maybe move up and get a crack at whoever wins between Calzaghe vs Kessler.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
And if he does all that he'll be in my top 3 no question! :coolclick:
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
And if he does all that he'll be in my top 3 no question! :coolclick:
:coolclick: back mate you bring up some good points and you are right i think i am getting bit carried away because im Pavlik fan and the way he KO Taylor was damn impressive but beating Taylor again and beating Abraham is a must imo before he moves up to Supermiddleweight and takes on either Calzaghe or Kessler i wonder if Hopkins or Wright will want to take on Pavlik.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
I think Pavlik could surpass Cotto and make it to top ten look at their compatetion i mean Cotto best win is Zab Judah, Oktay Urkal, Carlos Quintana, Paul Malignaggi and those to me are not better wins then Pavlik's Jermain Taylor, Bronco McKart, Jose Luis Zertuche, and Edison Miranda that to me would put him in the 10 spot not just holding abc titles it is who beats better people i think Pavlik has better wins so to me he makes it to the ten spot
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
But cc for your list Bilbo i could be wrong the way i see it who knows i hate pound for pound hard for me to judge
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
I think Pavlik could surpass Cotto and make it to top ten look at their compatetion i mean Cotto best win is Zab Judah, Oktay Urkal, Carlos Quintana, Paul Malignaggi and those to me are not better wins then Pavlik's Jermain Taylor, Bronco McKart, Jose Luis Zertuche, and Edison Miranda that to me would put him in the 10 spot not just holding abc titles it is who beats better people i think Pavlik has better wins so to me he makes it to the ten spot
But Cotto has won titles in two different weights. He's fought and won 10 straight world title fights. He's beaten former undisputed welterweight champ Zab Judah by KO, Mallignaggi is now a legit world champ in his own right as is Ricardo Torres.
Urkal has fought for 3 world titles I believe, not sure if he's won one. Maussa and N'Dou are both former world champs as was Corely.
How many former world champs has Pavlik beat?
Don't misunderstand me Pavlik is a great fighter and he's got a ton of potential but p4p rankings are based on what a fighter has done so far and Pavlik so far has only had one world title fight.
Yes he knocked Taylor out but he was almost Ko'd himself, was behind in the fight and is a knockout artist all the same. A guy like Ivan Calderon actually is a far better techinical boxer than Pavlik and has acomplished more being THE man at minimum weight and beating THE man at junior flyweight in Cazares but he's not a puncher hence to some it looks less impressive.
Oh and cc returned :)
