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[quote=Lyle;585650]Holyfield bulked up to make heavy, he also used drugs to do it and has been caught still at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I bet when Holyfield finally stops fighting and training he will have heart problems;D
Haye hasnt always been a big boy, he has weight lifted to get there and unfortunately its not the same as being naturally that size, his chin wasnt the best at cruiser and weight lifting wont help it get any better, neither will it help his defensive inabilities.
[quote=ross;585711]Completely agree with this statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleHolyfield bulked up to make heavy, he also used drugs to do it and has been caught still at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I bet when Holyfield finally stops fighting and training he will have heart problems;D
Haye hasnt always been a big boy, he has weight lifted to get there and unfortunately its not the same as being naturally that size, his chin wasnt the best at cruiser and weight lifting wont help it get any better, neither will it help his defensive inabilities.
Very good points. IMO Sonny Liston would be undisputed heavyweight champon of the world now. The Bear was a totally different animal to todays heavys. The only two men who have had the same kind of invincibility since are George Foreman and Mike Tyson. I would love to see these 3 in their primes against each other. I see Tyson coming out with no victories though.Quote:
Originally Posted by sonny78
You reckon Tyson would come last between the three;D
Mike succesfully defended his title in the eighties 9 times, Liston only once;D and Foreman only Twice;D
Mike wiped a division clean;D
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Originally Posted by DaxxKahnWell said...People tend to forget that a punch from a bonafied HW fighter (225-240lbs)...That can crack just a bit is one hell of a thing to absorb.....The whole with speed comes power theory has its limits.....Quote:
Originally Posted by The FightfanQuote:
Originally Posted by Markusdarkus
IN THE CRUISERWEIGHT DIVISION !!!
It is not that speed makes you hit harder it is the fact that you can not prepare for what you can not see coming.....Making the punch that you don't see having a higher effect...With that being said....
At HW you need to have HW power to keep that theory intact....
A shot from a guy who weighs 240lbs at full force will rock you a hell of a lot harder then a guy who is 195-200lbs normally....
Also Haye (And his followers) need to remember that Haye has never felt REAL: HW power and Wlad certainly has REAL HW power.....
Manny will make a game plan suited for Haye if it ever happens...All Wlad has to do is follow it....Wlad is his own worst enemy at times because he anticipates punches or gets punch shy a bit.....That is a no no....But if Wlad does not think he has anything to fear from Hayes shots then he will stand up and fight him...I don't care how much the "Hayemaker" is primed to land if he stands in front of Wlad for one exchange he will find out why he was the cruiserweight chamiopn and not the HW champ in the first place.....
After he wins the belt who does he have to face?.....Are we going to pretend he can stand up to the power of Peter, McCline, even the aging slow punching David Tua would spark him if he lands......
Haye is no Evander Holyfield....He is not the next great HW
And people there you have it;)
to be honest he doesn't look much much bigger, he norm weighs about 15,5 in crusier fights
he should bring some pop to the lacking heavyweight division, it will be interesting to see his first couple of fights up at heavy
he may be a little to big but either way he is still what the division needs. and i still think he might be faster than most heavyweights no matter how big he gets
If you want to say Haye's a bigger puncher, fine, he is a big puncher, to act like its not even up for debate is ridiculous, not as ridiculous as "no one can take a flush hayemaker", that set a new standard really (somebody could take a flush bomb from Joe Lewis, somebody could take one from George Foreman, someone could take on from Tyson, etc, etc, but no one's going to be able to take one from Haye, for fucks sake, come on now), but still a bit ridiculous. Haye has one early knockout that counts, one, and its debatable how good Enzo really is anyway. Other than that he has knocked out guys he should be knocking out, and its not like he got all of those guys out quickly, see Fraggomeni, Abdoul, Johannsen, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusdarkusQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
Dont start stupid shit.
Pacquaio is not a more dangerous puncher than Haye when was the last time you see him blast someone with one shot?
And tell me an active fighter that has fought better comp than Haye after 21 fights?
Try to back yourself up, the old the board will disagree so i will now claim this guy is a hugger trick...... fails everytime.
Pacquaio has taken his power all the way up from 112 to 135. He has a lot of early knockouts too, especially earlier in his career, like Haye, but that's just not gonna happen when you step up to the level/weight that he's stepped up too though, a level Haye hasn't gone to yet. Haye's not bombing a fighter of JMM's quality out early.
Haye has fought good competition for a guy with 21 fights, that's one of the reasons I'm a fan
And what GREAT fighter did Mike Tyson eventually lose to???Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I believe my point is made, had Ali not been there then Liston and Foreman would have reigned for several years.
I think NUCLEARBULL is right, he's not THAT much bigger and also kingfrnk speed doesn't mean that Haye will win at heavyweight.
Great point Lyle! What great fighter did Tyson ever do well with for that matter? Michael Spinks was a blown up LHW and Larry Holmes although still reasonable was nowhere near the man that he was in the early 80s.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleAnd what GREAT fighter did Mike Tyson eventually lose to???Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
I believe my point is made, had Ali not been there then Liston and Foreman would have reigned for several years.
Tyson could only beat the best opposition in front of him and he did that in a manner that was devastating to watch.
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Originally Posted by Master
Apart from a bit of stiff competition from Wlad I can see Haye blasting away the rest in the same style whether that makes him any good or not I dunno :D Maybe that will just tell us how bad the competiton is ;D
Yes well it is bad. We know that. And thats why he will have to blast his way through. Because if he struggles with someone mediocre then he will get set back quite a distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonardW12HaglerQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Apart from a bit of stiff competition from Wlad I can see Haye blasting away the rest in the same style whether that makes him any good or not I dunno :D Maybe that will just tell us how bad the competiton is ;D
Apart from Bonin Haye hasnt done anything for me to be confident of his success in the heavys.
He has been badly hurt by a 40 year old Thompson, Fragomeni and Mormeck.
If he is regularly getting hurt by cruisers when he was stepping up, the heavys are gonne be far too much for him.;D
I don't remember him badly hurt against Fragomeni or Mormeck , Thompson I'll give you that one;D