Who is the bigger cheater?

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by ICB

Means nothing ? uhh it proves im not cheating if i can play at a very high level, playing speed games which i can fast games are my speciality. I had lag that day which i told Killersheep before Chess was mentioned.

Im offering you a challenge to prove it, i'll move 2 seconds per move it doesn't really bother me. You can even play unrated i don't care about rating, its just to clear my name thats it because i don't like being accused, and i never realized you took it too heart :-\

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Beating me at bullet would prove you can move fast. Beating me at bullet would not prove you can play at a high level, cause I can't play even close to a high level at bullet. And I would have no way of verifying who it is anyway.

If you have anything at all to say, respond to my post in Bilbo's thread, cause that's where I've made my case.

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LOL this is just ridiculous it really is forgetting what i say, because nothing i can say would make a difference in both of your old suspicious minds. So im offering you a bullet game or even a slow game.

And you can take all the time you want to think, and i'll move in seconds how about that ? step up to the mark don't just accuse me and then don't step up to the mark. Im willing to prove it the good old fashion way, not just with words.

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The stage is set CGM the fans are waiting with excitement, all you need to do is sign the contract right here bud ;)








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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

Beating me at bullet would prove you can move fast. Beating me at bullet would not prove you can play at a high level, cause I can't play even close to a high level at bullet. And I would have no way of verifying who it is anyway.

If you have anything at all to say, respond to my post in Bilbo's thread, cause that's where I've made my case.

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LOL this is just ridiculous it really is forgetting what i say, because nothing i can say would make a difference in both of your old suspicious minds. So im offering you a bullet game or even a slow game.

And you can take all the time you want to think, and i'll move in seconds how about that ? step up to the mark don't just accuse me and then don't step up to the mark. Im willing to prove it the good old fashion way, not just with words.

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The stage is set CGM the fans are waiting with excitement, all you need to do is sign the contract right here bud ;)








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Hmm... A guy who previously claimed, a couple of months ago, not to have played in over 5 years, and only a few times before that, and who also claimed that he really sucked at chess, now is so confident that he wants to challenge me whereby he will take only a few seconds per move, and I can take all the time I want. :confused: I think not. Sorry, I'm not interested in those terms. And to tell you the truth, I'm really not all that interested in playing you. But I will give some thought to some other kind of contest.

You can claim victory in this dispute if you want, I'll still stand by my post in Bilbo's thread. And everyone else can believe whatever the hell they want.

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by ICB

LOL this is just ridiculous it really is forgetting what i say, because nothing i can say would make a difference in both of your old suspicious minds. So im offering you a bullet game or even a slow game.

And you can take all the time you want to think, and i'll move in seconds how about that ? step up to the mark don't just accuse me and then don't step up to the mark. Im willing to prove it the good old fashion way, not just with words.

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The stage is set CGM the fans are waiting with excitement, all you need to do is sign the contract right here bud ;)








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Hmm... A guy who previously claimed, a couple of months ago, not to have played in over 5 years, and only a few times before that, and who also claimed that he really sucked at chess, now is so confident that he wants to challenge me whereby he will take only a few seconds per move, and I can take all the time I want. :confused: I think not. Sorry, I'm not interested in those terms. And to tell you the truth, I'm really not all that interested in playing you. But I will give some thought to some other kind of contest.

You can claim victory in this dispute if you want, I'll still stand by my post in Bilbo's thread. And everyone else can believe whatever the hell they want.

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Ok fair enough but don't call me a cheater anymore, because i've offered you fair terms and you declined. Unless your willing to step up never call me a cheater again thank you :)

And that goes for Bilbo aswell he knows the terms if your interested my little hobbit friend ;)

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by ICB

The stage is set CGM the fans are waiting with excitement, all you need to do is sign the contract right here bud ;)








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Hmm... A guy who previously claimed, a couple of months ago, not to have played in over 5 years, and only a few times before that, and who also claimed that he really sucked at chess, now is so confident that he wants to challenge me whereby he will take only a few seconds per move, and I can take all the time I want. :confused: I think not. Sorry, I'm not interested in those terms. And to tell you the truth, I'm really not all that interested in playing you. But I will give some thought to some other kind of contest.

You can claim victory in this dispute if you want, I'll still stand by my post in Bilbo's thread. And everyone else can believe whatever the hell they want.

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Ok fair enough but don't call me a cheater anymore, because i've offered you fair terms and you declined. Unless your willing to step up never call me a cheater again thank you :)

And that goes for Bilbo aswell he knows the terms if your interested my little hobbit friend ;)

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I would love to see an actual game with you guys playing against each other just to see for my own eyes who really is better. We could have members betting on who they think would win to generate prize money too. ;D

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

Hmm... A guy who previously claimed, a couple of months ago, not to have played in over 5 years, and only a few times before that, and who also claimed that he really sucked at chess, now is so confident that he wants to challenge me whereby he will take only a few seconds per move, and I can take all the time I want. :confused: I think not. Sorry, I'm not interested in those terms. And to tell you the truth, I'm really not all that interested in playing you. But I will give some thought to some other kind of contest.

You can claim victory in this dispute if you want, I'll still stand by my post in Bilbo's thread. And everyone else can believe whatever the hell they want.

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Ok fair enough but don't call me a cheater anymore, because i've offered you fair terms and you declined. Unless your willing to step up never call me a cheater again thank you :)

And that goes for Bilbo aswell he knows the terms if your interested my little hobbit friend ;)

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I would love to see an actual game with you guys playing against each other just to see for my own eyes who really is better. We could have members betting on who they think would win to generate prize money too. ;D

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Gambling? I'm in.

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by ICB

Ok fair enough but don't call me a cheater anymore, because i've offered you fair terms and you declined. Unless your willing to step up never call me a cheater again thank you :)

And that goes for Bilbo aswell he knows the terms if your interested my little hobbit friend ;)

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I would love to see an actual game with you guys playing against each other just to see for my own eyes who really is better. We could have members betting on who they think would win to generate prize money too. ;D

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Gambling? I'm in.

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There is no way this is going to be settled online ever, is there?

Its the only way! ;D:-X

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by killersheep

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Originally Posted by miles

I would love to see an actual game with you guys playing against each other just to see for my own eyes who really is better. We could have members betting on who they think would win to generate prize money too. ;D

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Gambling? I'm in.

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There is no way this is going to be settled online ever, is there?

Its the only way! ;D:-X

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I've got some extra beds at my place, my liquor cabinet is fully stocked and I have 3 chess sets..............And I love to gamble.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by ICB

The stage is set CGM the fans are waiting with excitement, all you need to do is sign the contract right here bud ;)








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Hmm... A guy who previously claimed, a couple of months ago, not to have played in over 5 years, and only a few times before that, and who also claimed that he really sucked at chess, now is so confident that he wants to challenge me whereby he will take only a few seconds per move, and I can take all the time I want. :confused: I think not. Sorry, I'm not interested in those terms. And to tell you the truth, I'm really not all that interested in playing you. But I will give some thought to some other kind of contest.

You can claim victory in this dispute if you want, I'll still stand by my post in Bilbo's thread. And everyone else can believe whatever the hell they want.

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Ok fair enough but don't call me a cheater anymore, because i've offered you fair terms and you declined. Unless your willing to step up never call me a cheater again thank you :)

And that goes for Bilbo aswell he knows the terms if your interested my little hobbit friend ;)

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To be fair to Ice he is at least offering to play a speed game where it would be virtually impossible to cheat, unless he had somebody else with him moving the pieces on a chess program on a seperate computer and calling out the moves he should make in record time, or that he had a really strong player to play on his behalf.

My problem in the whole scenario is the PROVEN inconsistencies in Ice's story.

A year ago he had only played chess twice and just about knew how to move the pieces.

Now he claims to have been a chess prodigy as a child and even studied Grandmaster games and got a 2100 rating which would put him in the top 10 percent of competitive chess players worldwide.

When pressed to name the Grandmasters he studied and what games he viewed we got no response, when asked what openings he plays again we got no response.

If you really had such a love for chess that you studied the games of Grandmaster you would easily be able to remember the games you studied just like you can remember the favourite fights from your favourite fighters.

You would also have loads of information to offer relating to the openings you played and you'd remember easily the openings employed in all of your online encounters against fellow players here.

You could have easily countered these accusations by supplying us with that information but every time I asked the question you simply ignored the post.

A 1 or 2 minute bullet game is pretty much a crap shoot and rewards mouse hand eye coordination and a decent internet connection more than skill in chess.

Myself and CGM have both discussed chess privately and it's clear from our conversations that we both understand chess and have studied it from our knowledge of it.

To use a boxing analagy what Ice has effectively done is claim he laced up a pair of gloves a couple times, then in about turn claim he was a great amatuer and boasted an impressive win record, yet avoids any questions regarding where he trained, who he boxed, what competitions he entered, what gloves he wore, who he knows in the boxing world etc.

Interestingly he now started to claim EXACTLY this in amatuer boxing as well with his 5-0 record, training in an unknown gym, against unknown opponents, in unknown venues, trained by an unknown trainer etc.

You are arousing suspicion Ice and it's fair game to call you up on it.

I guess now we now who the real cheater is. Margarito

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by CGM

Hmm... A guy who previously claimed, a couple of months ago, not to have played in over 5 years, and only a few times before that, and who also claimed that he really sucked at chess, now is so confident that he wants to challenge me whereby he will take only a few seconds per move, and I can take all the time I want. :confused: I think not. Sorry, I'm not interested in those terms. And to tell you the truth, I'm really not all that interested in playing you. But I will give some thought to some other kind of contest.

You can claim victory in this dispute if you want, I'll still stand by my post in Bilbo's thread. And everyone else can believe whatever the hell they want.

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Ok fair enough but don't call me a cheater anymore, because i've offered you fair terms and you declined. Unless your willing to step up never call me a cheater again thank you :)

And that goes for Bilbo aswell he knows the terms if your interested my little hobbit friend ;)

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To be fair to Ice he is at least offering to play a speed game where it would be virtually impossible to cheat, unless he had somebody else with him moving the pieces on a chess program on a seperate computer and calling out the moves he should make in record time, or that he had a really strong player to play on his behalf.

My problem in the whole scenario is the PROVEN inconsistencies in Ice's story.

A year ago he had only played chess twice and just about knew how to move the pieces.

Now he claims to have been a chess prodigy as a child and even studied Grandmaster games and got a 2100 rating which would put him in the top 10 percent of competitive chess players worldwide.

When pressed to name the Grandmasters he studied and what games he viewed we got no response, when asked what openings he plays again we got no response.

If you really had such a love for chess that you studied the games of Grandmaster you would easily be able to remember the games you studied just like you can remember the favourite fights from your favourite fighters.

You would also have loads of information to offer relating to the openings you played and you'd remember easily the openings employed in all of your online encounters against fellow players here.

You could have easily countered these accusations by supplying us with that information but every time I asked the question you simply ignored the post.

A 1 or 2 minute bullet game is pretty much a crap shoot and rewards mouse hand eye coordination and a decent internet connection more than skill in chess.

Myself and CGM have both discussed chess privately and it's clear from our conversations that we both understand chess and have studied it from our knowledge of it.

To use a boxing analagy what Ice has effectively done is claim he laced up a pair of gloves a couple times, then in about turn claim he was a great amatuer and boasted an impressive win record, yet avoids any questions regarding where he trained, who he boxed, what competitions he entered, what gloves he wore, who he knows in the boxing world etc.

Interestingly he now started to claim EXACTLY this in amatuer boxing as well with his 5-0 record, training in an unknown gym, against unknown opponents, in unknown venues, trained by an unknown trainer etc.

You are arousing suspicion Ice and it's fair game to call you up on it.

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Not interested. It actually would not be that hard to cheat. It only takes but a second or two for a modern computer to come up with a very strong move. And even if I am given all the time I want to make my move, there is a setting in any good software called continuous thinking mode, whereby the computer is busily churning away analyzing the position even when it is my turn.

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Originally Posted by CGM

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ICB

Ok fair enough but don't call me a cheater anymore, because i've offered you fair terms and you declined. Unless your willing to step up never call me a cheater again thank you :)

And that goes for Bilbo aswell he knows the terms if your interested my little hobbit friend ;)

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To be fair to Ice he is at least offering to play a speed game where it would be virtually impossible to cheat, unless he had somebody else with him moving the pieces on a chess program on a seperate computer and calling out the moves he should make in record time, or that he had a really strong player to play on his behalf.

My problem in the whole scenario is the PROVEN inconsistencies in Ice's story.

A year ago he had only played chess twice and just about knew how to move the pieces.

Now he claims to have been a chess prodigy as a child and even studied Grandmaster games and got a 2100 rating which would put him in the top 10 percent of competitive chess players worldwide.

When pressed to name the Grandmasters he studied and what games he viewed we got no response, when asked what openings he plays again we got no response.

If you really had such a love for chess that you studied the games of Grandmaster you would easily be able to remember the games you studied just like you can remember the favourite fights from your favourite fighters.

You would also have loads of information to offer relating to the openings you played and you'd remember easily the openings employed in all of your online encounters against fellow players here.

You could have easily countered these accusations by supplying us with that information but every time I asked the question you simply ignored the post.

A 1 or 2 minute bullet game is pretty much a crap shoot and rewards mouse hand eye coordination and a decent internet connection more than skill in chess.

Myself and CGM have both discussed chess privately and it's clear from our conversations that we both understand chess and have studied it from our knowledge of it.

To use a boxing analagy what Ice has effectively done is claim he laced up a pair of gloves a couple times, then in about turn claim he was a great amatuer and boasted an impressive win record, yet avoids any questions regarding where he trained, who he boxed, what competitions he entered, what gloves he wore, who he knows in the boxing world etc.

Interestingly he now started to claim EXACTLY this in amatuer boxing as well with his 5-0 record, training in an unknown gym, against unknown opponents, in unknown venues, trained by an unknown trainer etc.

You are arousing suspicion Ice and it's fair game to call you up on it.

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Not interested. It actually would not be that hard to cheat. It only takes but a second or two for a modern computer to come up with a very strong move. And even if I am given all the time I want to make my move, there is a setting in any good software called continuous thinking mode, whereby the computer is busily churning away analyzing the position even when it is my turn.

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Yeah you are probably right. The thing is though if he DIDN'T cheat and really is a good player he should easily have been able to respond to my questions about what openings and what Grandmaster games he studied, but he's conveniantly sidestepped them every time I've asked.

I must admit I'm with Big H now. I believe he cheated at chess, most likely cheated at checkers, and is lying about his amatuer boxing career. I also highly doubt that the pic of his girlfriend was real nor the pic of his own well toned abs.

He's fraud, unless he's prepared to demonstrate otherwise, bit sad really.

Anyway I actually played chess tonight in an internal club competition and won in 18 moves against an opponent who really was not very good.

I didn't play it perfectly, analysing it now shows Qa5 wasn't the best but it does show how easy it is for a player with just a 100 ECF level understanding (I rate about 1500 USCF and 1700 online) to beat someone who clearly has no real understanding of chess fundamentals.

Here's the game CGM if you are interested in playing it out. I was black.

1. e3 e5
2. h3 d5
3. Nf3 e4
4. Nd4 Nf6
5. a3 c5
6. Nb5 a6
7. N5c3 d4
8. exd4 cxd4
9.Ne2 Nc6
10. g3 Qa5
11. b4 Bxb4
12. Nxd4 Nxd4
13. c3 Nf3+
14. Ke2 Qb5+
15. d3 Bc5
16. Bf4 Nd5
17. a4 Qb2+
18. Nd2 Nxc3++

Easy win just following basic chess principles of controlling the center when your opponent fails to and using his vulnurable knight to rapidly gain central space with pawns and a lead in development and then launch an attack. Qa5 offered him better chances to defend with Bg2 but I was playing a patzer pretty much and I figured he'd almost certainly play b4. I wish I would have seen 17 Qxb1 though a much more dramatic way to win :)

Not bad at all, but yeah when black seizes the initiative like that after 4 moves you pretty much know you are up against a patzer. In the game, I might have played 16...Bf5 instead putting pressure on the d-pawn, and also opening up the d-file for your Rook. But the way you playeed it is ok too.

yeah, 17...Qxb1 is nice, setting up a nice fork on c3.

Do you know how to use PGN files to record games. PGN is a standard notation used by chess software, usually you can copy and paste in and out of the software into text to post online somehere.

We can take this offline to PM to discuss furtehr if you want.

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Originally Posted by CGM

Not bad at all, but yeah when black seizes the initiative like that after 4 moves you pretty much know you are up against a patzer. In the game, I might have played 16...Bf5 instead putting pressure on the d-pawn, and also opening up the d-file for your Rook. But the way you playeed it is ok too.

yeah, 17...Qxb1 is nice, setting up a nice fork on c3.

Do you know how to use PGN files to record games. PGN is a standard notation used by chess software, usually you can copy and paste in and out of the software into text to post online somehere.

We can take this offline to PM to discuss furtehr if you want.

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Yeah I can do, I couldn't when I posted as I was analysing and it locks the program up and doesnt allow to save, but its almost done now.

As to discussing in private yeah I'd love to, I'm getting really into the game now and am eager to learn and improve.

I think the game is a great example though of what happens when someone who doens't know anything of chess basics comes up against someone who knows just the fundamentals. If Ice really had only played twice as he originally implied he'd be as easy to beat as that guy was, if he was truly a prodigy and studied grandmaster games, he's be in this discussion now sharing with us his insights on openings, central control, initiative etc.

OK, PM me anytime, but I really don't want to discuss the whole chessgate thing any longer. I'd just as soon see it die off.

I see Ice now has a picture of him boxing. Good, that issue is put to rest.

But do you have a picture of you playing chess :cwm13: