Anybody think Pac has lost 5 fights and JMM has only lost 1??

Unless you are a Pac fan a gift is covered up by supporting the judges and emphasizing the obvious that the outcome will remain in the record books

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Originally Posted by Quinito

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.


Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.



-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.

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Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.

Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.

Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.

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You scored round 1 for Marquez? Dude you're blind. And stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was really a 10-7 round for Pac. Juan held and sat on the ropes just like his brother Rafa (Izzy-Rafa 3 rd.12) after he took some blistering combos from Pac.

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Round 3 was a 10-7 round ???

Please elaborate on this... Im looking for some sort of Rule or Regulation that supports your point.

Not that im disagreeing with you per say, but i just don't see how so..?

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

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Originally Posted by Quinito

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Originally Posted by ICB

Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.

Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.

Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.

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You scored round 1 for Marquez? Dude you're blind. And stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was really a 10-7 round for Pac. Juan held and sat on the ropes just like his brother Rafa (Izzy-Rafa 3 rd.12) after he took some blistering combos from Pac.

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Round 3 was a 10-7 round ???

Please elaborate on this... Im looking for some sort of Rule or Regulation that supports your point.

Not that im disagreeing with you per say, but i just don't see how so..?

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I'm pretty sure he's referring to the end of the round where after knocking him down Pac staggers Marquez, who stumbles backwards and very brieftly grabs the ropes. It was unclear whether or not Marquez would've gone down without grabbing the ropes, but I really doubt it. It was nothing like Rafa grabbing the ropes in rd. 12 against Vazquez.

Okay yeah i figured he was on about that incident but i always overlooked it as a 'nearly'.
But as far as the rules go, does that mean that it should of been scored a knockdown?

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Originally Posted by Jimboogie

Okay yeah i figured he was on about that incident but i always overlooked it as a 'nearly'.
But as far as the rules go, does that mean that it should of been scored a knockdown?

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I believe the rules state that if the ropes are the only thing holding a fighter up then it should be ruled a knockdown. In my opinion, it is not conclusive whether or not the ropes were the only things holding up JMM. Without briefly grabbing them he may have staggered back a few feet but it is impossible to tell if he would've gone down without grabbing them. This is the case for me even after watching the end of the round several times, so it would have been impossible for the ref to make a conclusive call and rule it a knockdown. It's nothing like the Rafa incident he sites because Rafa was badly hurt and it was very clear the ropes were the only thing holding him up.

Oh dear :-\

Thanks man, but now i I need to re-re-re-watch :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Quinito

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.


Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.



-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.

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Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.

Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.

Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.

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You scored round 1 for Marquez? Dude you're blind. And stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was really a 10-7 round for Pac. Juan held and sat on the ropes just like his brother Rafa (Izzy-Rafa 3 rd.12) after he took some blistering combos from Pac.

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Uhh please put your Manny Pacquiao fan boy glasses away, and just accept the fact people have different opinions. I gave the 1st round to JMM i don't need to explain it because i already gave my reason's above.

Stop ignoring the fact that the 3rd round was a 10-7 round ? excuse me but was it scored a 10-7 round ? did any of the judges score it 10-7 ? so why should i score it 10-7 ? yes some ref's may of ruled it a 10-7 round, but he didn't some ref's don't always rule it a knockdown if a fighter get knocked back towards the ropes. I could mention hundreds of incident's when thats happened.

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Originally Posted by ICB

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

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Originally Posted by ICB

Heres my scorecard Taeth from ages ago.

1 Marquez
2 Marquez
3 Pacquiao 10-8
4 Pacquiao
5 Marquez
6 Marquez
7 Pacquiao
8 Marquez
9 Pacquiao
10 Pacquiao
11 Marquez
12 Marquez

114-113 JMM

I think the 8th round was borderline 10-8 round for JMM aswell.

And lastly that post i made with all the score's was just to prove your point wrong, about the Mexican/Spanish comment.

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Round 1 - Marquez landed 1 good shot. thats 1 shot Pacquiao out gunned him the whole round. Pac landed more. you cant win a round by landing 1 good shot.


Round 11 - another round where PAC can claim.



-- There is no way anybody can prove that JMM won this fight and there is a reason why judges are being paid.

---

Its called my opinion ? i thought JMM landed the most telling blow of round 1, it was a very cautious round not alot of punches landed. Maybe Manny Pacquiao landed a few more punches but so what ? i don't score fights on just how many punches are landed.

Its also about the effectiveness of the punches and ETC, and JMM clearly landed the most eye catching punch of the round. And the 11th round JMM come forward and was aggressive and took the fight too Manny Pacquiao, JMM was very aggressive in the last 2 rounds which gave him the nod IMO.

Can you prove to me why you think Manny Pacquiao won the fight ? other than using "Thats why the judges are being paid" because thats pretty narrow minded considering judges get it wrong all the time. And its also a cope out because your not explaining yourself.

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the 11th is a STRONG round for Pacquiao. Its almost a clear round for him.

You cant prove it, i cant prove it so we go to the official card.

Its your opinion againts my opinion. 115-112 for Gerry Roth because he probably like accurate counters. 115-112 for Duane ford probably because he likes aggression and the harders shots landed. I repeat 8 rounds were unclear so 114-113 either way is good.


But to create a thread about reverting official victories is ridiculous. the scores were justifiable.

Reverting one official boxing result is a tedious process... Reverting 2 official results in the 2 fights of the same set of boxers is so much of a stretch...

I'm just wondering why Team JMM didn't lodge a formal complaint regarding these alleged "robberies"... Guess Team JMM is just all talk...
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After watching this fight twice today, IMO Marquez won much clearer than I previously thought.
His punches were much more effective, and he was landing the cleaner punches much more often.
Those two strong punches that Pacquiao landed in the 11 and 3 should not change the outcome of this fight.

Just reading this interesting old thread :cool:

Check the boxrec ;)

Since this thread im a bit more clued up on JMM. And i think the only fight he has lost, is the one against Floyd Mayweather Jr. Which wasn't at a fair weightclass, this is how i see his close decisions.

Julian Wheeler = Ok it didn't go the distance, but it was close going into the last round, and some people felt Julian Wheeler was DQ'ed too early. But JMM was having a great last round, and was on the verge of stopping Julian Wheeler, and Julian Wheeler did hold on quite a bit. No doubt JMM would of stopped him without all the holding.

Freddie Norwood = JMM won this by few points IMO, even the HBO crew thought he won aswell. It was a messy/horrible fight. But if you pay attention and score it RBR, really taking note i think your find JMM won a clear decision although pretty close. JMM won this fight no doubt in my mind.

Manny Pacquiao 1 = Easy fight to score for me, JMM won 8 rounds to 4. But because of the 4 point round, 113-112 JMM.

Chris John = Had point's taken away when he didn't derserve, a seriously biased ref. And despite all that was against JMM, he still won a clear but close decision.

MAB = A reasonably close fight, if i remember rightly i had JMM winning 115-113. A great technical fight one of my favorites.

Manny Pacquiao 2 = My scoring hasn't changed 7 rounds to 5 for JMM, but because of the 2 point round 114-113 JMM.

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Originally Posted by ICB

Since this thread im a bit more clued up on JMM. And i think the only fight he has lost, is the one against Floyd Mayweather Jr. Which wasn't at a fair weightclass, this is how i see his close decisions.

Julian Wheeler = Ok it didn't go the distance, but it was close going into the last round, and some people felt Julian Wheeler was DQ'ed too early. But JMM was having a great last round, and was on the verge of stopping Julian Wheeler, and Julian Wheeler did hold on quite a bit. No doubt JMM would of stopped him without all the holding.

Freddie Norwood = JMM won this by few points IMO, even the HBO crew thought he won aswell. It was a messy/horrible fight. But if you pay attention and score it RBR, really taking note i think your find JMM won a clear decision although pretty close. JMM won this fight no doubt in my mind.

Manny Pacquiao 1 = Easy fight to score for me, JMM won 8 rounds to 4. But because of the 4 point round, 113-112 JMM.

Chris John = Had point's taken away when he didn't derserve, a seriously biased ref. And despite all that was against JMM, he still won a clear but close decision.

MAB = A reasonably close fight, if i remember rightly i had JMM winning 115-113. A great technical fight one of my favorites.

Manny Pacquiao 2 = My scoring hasn't changed 7 rounds to 5 for JMM, but because of the 2 point round 114-113 JMM.

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If all of that were actually correct (and it may well be) then JMM has to go down as an ATG, and up there with PBF and PAC

JMM is a great, but not up there with PBF and Pac.

Accomplishments and resume are the main criteria and JMM's resume and accomplishments aren't up there with those 2, imo. JMM is a great fighter no doubt about it.