Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Jesus!!!
It's really not hard to understand.
Since Vitali came back in 2008 he's had ten fights. During this time Wlad's had seven. They have ONE common opponent!!! - Sam Peter (who Wlad had already beat)
The TWO best fighters have SIXTEEN different opponents over the past 4 years. How the hell can you be the best fighter in a division if you don't even know who the best fighters are?
Boxing is not a TAG-TEAM sport.
:rolleyes:
Wlad has had 9 soon to be 10 fights since Vitali's comeback. Between the 2 brothers WLAD has been the one to unify the titles not Vitali. Vitali has an extra fight in there because the Solis "fight" barely started before that fat bastard's knee gave out, but some Klitschko haters still to this day think that Solis was "winning the fight" :vd:
Boxing isn't a tag team sport and the brothers aren't both fighting the same opponent on 1 night. The deal is this after Vitali beat Sanders & Kirk Johnson he was the man of the division....after his little hiatus Wlad took over. Wlad is THE MAN of the division...it's not hard to figure out, it's common fucking knowledge, he's got the most belts, he's been the most impressive, and Vitali has done his work without falling behind too much but it's Wlad's time in the division everyone knows that why you're insisting they fight each other or have one retire or whatever is just idiotic.
And I above all people know who the best fighters in the heavyweight division are because everyone else bitches about it.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
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Come on man, lets go.
Take me to pleasure town fenster...LOL.
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Lewis became THE man after beating Briggs who took the linage from Foreman. This is common knowledge
If ANYONE should have been declared the lineal HW champion it was mediocre featherfisted bum Axl Schulz, who was robbed against Foreman. Foreman refused a rematch, fought Savarese and Grimsley (I forget the order), and evidentially the suits, the powers that be, had enough of Foreman's cherry picking and free agent status, and when Briggs went the distance---they gave it to him---thus eliminating Foreman completely from contention, as he been stripped of his alphabet titles and now his linear claim.
If we consider Schulz lineal HW champion, then basically the title went back to the man Foreman won it from in Michael Moorer; Schulz 'won' the IBF title from Botha after 'winning' the lineal title from Foreman, and then lost via SD to Michael Moorer, who would then lose to Evander Holyfield.
LOL this shit's hilarious we could be here for some time...
You're going back into fantasy "what ifs"
I'm purely dealing in fact. "Robberies," bad decisions and terrible match-ups are common place in boxing. However, the "man who beat the man" is the closest you can ever get to having a TRUE champion.
Hold up... even your fantasy linage leads back to Lewis. I've forgot what point you was making? (;D)
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Jesus!!!
It's really not hard to understand.
Since Vitali came back in 2008 he's had ten fights. During this time Wlad's had seven. They have ONE common opponent!!! - Sam Peter (who Wlad had already beat)
The TWO best fighters have SIXTEEN different opponents over the past 4 years. How the hell can you be the best fighter in a division if you don't even know who the best fighters are?
Boxing is not a TAG-TEAM sport.
:rolleyes:
Wlad has had
9 soon to be 10 fights since Vitali's comeback. Between the 2 brothers WLAD has been the one to unify the titles not Vitali. Vitali has an extra fight in there because the Solis "fight" barely started before that fat bastard's knee gave out, but some Klitschko haters still to this day think that Solis was "winning the fight" :vd:
Boxing isn't a tag team sport and the brothers aren't both fighting the same opponent on 1 night. The deal is this after Vitali beat Sanders & Kirk Johnson he was the man of the division....after his little hiatus Wlad took over. Wlad is THE MAN of the division...it's not hard to figure out, it's common fucking knowledge, he's got the most belts, he's been the most impressive, and Vitali has done his work without falling behind too much but it's Wlad's time in the division everyone knows that why you're insisting they fight each other or have one retire or whatever is just idiotic.
And I above all people know who the best fighters in the heavyweight division are because everyone else bitches about it.
You need to check your dates. It's 7. Fact.
The Klits ain't fighting the same opposition on any night let alone the same night. That's the problem.
Wlad is recognised as the top heavyweight purely because The Ring magazine declared his fight with Chagaev (no.3) for the title. It's got fuck all to do with him facing tougher opposition than Vitali. Wlad is the champ because we all have to IGNORE his brother, the WBC and their entire rankings.
That's why, to any boxing fan with a half a brain cell, and nerdy enough to even care about this shit, Wlad has NEVER been the genuine champion of the world. It was made impossible by his big bro.
Not ONCE have I said they "should" fight each other. Don't be silly.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Vitali came back in 2008, I guess you didn't want me to count 2 of the 3 fights Wladimir had that year because they happened before October of that year :rolleyes:
OK so Wlad & Vitali hurt each other because they are fighting different opponents? Well you DO realize that the ratings of the different sanctioning bodies are different right? I mean that's NOT lost on you is it? Who has fought better competition recently??? Is it Vitali or Wlad or don't you know? You seem to be easily confused right now.
If you're not suggesting they fight each other what RATIONAL idea to do you have in mind?
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Vitali came back in 2008, I guess you didn't want me to count 2 of the 3 fights Wladimir had that year because they happened before October of that year :rolleyes:
OK so Wlad & Vitali hurt each other because they are fighting different opponents? Well you DO realize that the ratings of the different sanctioning bodies are different right? I mean that's NOT lost on you is it? Who has fought better competition recently??? Is it Vitali or Wlad or don't you know? You seem to be easily confused right now.
If you're not suggesting they fight each other what RATIONAL idea to do you have in mind?
1. Pay attention. What came before Vitali's comeback is irrelevant to my point.
2. The ratings from different sanctioning bodies throw up different opponents? That is EXACTLY the point i've been making. If you are limited to a certain amount of opponents per division, how can you ever establish yourself as THE best? You can't. Unless you defeat your independently recognised closest challenger.
3. This is a real simple way to understand this - If Haye beat Wlad he would be THE best heavyweight on the planet, right? Who would Haye have been expected to fight next? Vitali!!! Why? Because Vitali is the next best.
Wlad has a luxury that basically no other fighter in history has. He's a good "champion." But his brother is a major factor in his career.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
1. Pay attention. What came before Vitali's comeback is irrelevant to my point.
2. The ratings from different sanctioning bodies throw up different opponents? That is EXACTLY the point i've been making. If you are limited to a certain amount of opponents per division, how can you ever establish yourself as THE best? You can't. Unless you defeat your independently recognised closest challenger.
3. This is a real simple way to understand this - If Haye beat Wlad he would be THE best heavyweight on the planet, right? Who would Haye have been expected to fight next? Vitali!!! Why? Because Vitali is the next best.
Wlad has a luxury that basically no other fighter in history has. He's a good "champion." But his brother is a major factor in his career.
1. You posted like Wlad wasn't being an active Champion when he defended his titles 3 times in 2008.
2. Nobody is going to argue against the fact that there are too many sanctioning bodies, too many belts, etc. But the Klitschko's stay active and fight roughly twice a year if not more.
3. You've conceeded your point, you just admitted Wlad is THE BEST HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE DIVISION. Now surely you meant to alledge that "He'll never fight the 2nd best heavyweight in the division" but that's erroneous because the 2nd best heavyweight won't fight the #1 either so they blank each other out and what are we left with? We're left with Wlad as #1, Vitali as #1a and everybody else waaaaaaaaaaay down the line at #2-whatever
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
1. Pay attention. What came before Vitali's comeback is irrelevant to my point.
2. The ratings from different sanctioning bodies throw up different opponents? That is EXACTLY the point i've been making. If you are limited to a certain amount of opponents per division, how can you ever establish yourself as THE best? You can't. Unless you defeat your independently recognised closest challenger.
3. This is a real simple way to understand this - If Haye beat Wlad he would be THE best heavyweight on the planet, right? Who would Haye have been expected to fight next? Vitali!!! Why? Because Vitali is the next best.
Wlad has a luxury that basically no other fighter in history has. He's a good "champion." But his brother is a major factor in his career.
1. You posted like Wlad wasn't being an active Champion when he defended his titles 3 times in 2008.
2. Nobody is going to argue against the fact that there are too many sanctioning bodies, too many belts, etc. But the Klitschko's stay active and fight roughly twice a year if not more.
3. You've conceeded your point, you just admitted Wlad is THE BEST HEAVYWEIGHT IN THE DIVISION. Now surely you meant to alledge that "He'll never fight the 2nd best heavyweight in the division" but that's erroneous because the 2nd best heavyweight won't fight the #1 either so they blank each other out and what are we left with? We're left with Wlad as #1, Vitali as #1a and everybody else waaaaaaaaaaay down the line at #2-whatever
:vd:
We're left without a true definitive champion.
Boxing is not tag team. It is not doubles. You can't claim credit for your partners success. The Klits are individuals. Even you, Wlad's biggest fan, demean his accomplishments by refering to HIM as "the Klitschko's"
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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Hold up... even your fantasy linage leads back to Lewis. I've forgot what point you was making?
Go on fenster give it to me.....lead me back to lenny!
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
Schulz to Moorer to Holyfield to Lewis.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Schulz to Moorer to Holyfield to Lewis.
So which is it again? Holy or Briggs?
P.s I thought bowe beat Holy?
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
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Originally Posted by
Fenster
Schulz to Moorer to Holyfield to Lewis.
So which is it again? Holy or Briggs?
P.s I thought bowe beat Holy?
Bowe beat Holyfield for the lineal title in 1992. In 93 Holyfield won it back off him. In 94 Holyfield lost it to Moorer. Then in 94 Moorer lost it to Foreman.
In 95 Bowe beat Holyfield but the linage wasn't involved.
;)
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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You're going back into fantasy "what ifs"
I'm purely dealing in fact. "Robberies," bad decisions and terrible match-ups are common place in boxing. However, the "man who beat the man" is the closest you can ever get to having a TRUE champion.
Hold up... even your fantasy linage leads back to Lewis. I've forgot what point you was making? (;D)
Factually Sven Otke is undefeated! We all know briggs wasn't THE MAN! Bowe was LL's no.2! Briggs....LOL. Of course the lineage is up for debate.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
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You're going back into fantasy "what ifs"
I'm purely dealing in fact. "Robberies," bad decisions and terrible match-ups are common place in boxing. However, the "man who beat the man" is the closest you can ever get to having a TRUE champion.
Hold up... even your fantasy linage leads back to Lewis. I've forgot what point you was making? (;D)
Factually Sven Otke is undefeated! We all know briggs wasn't THE MAN! Bowe was LL's no.2! Briggs....LOL. Of course the lineage is up for debate.
I don't think you understand what lineage is?
When there was ONE champion you had to beat him to become champion. "The man who beat the man." It's the purest form of establishing a king per division. If the lineage gets broken (a champion retires), it gets restarted when the independently recognised no.1 and 2 meet.
The lineage is not up for debate. What can be up for debate is whether or not the lineal champion is actually the "best" fighter in the division. But that just complicates matters even further.
Bowe was better than Briggs. I agree. However, Briggs was the lineal champion when Lewis beat him. And that win cemented Lewis position in history going back a million years. The heavyweight lineage is very easy to trace.
Sven Ottke was never a lineal champion. Being undefeated is irrelevant. Calzaghe became lineal champion when he defeated Jeff Lacy (they were independently rated 1 and 2). Like Ottke, his "world" title defenses prior to this are basically meaningless.
Re: Joe frazier (rip) would be the smallest opponent wlad....
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"The man who beat the man."
Yes but i am arguing that brigg's was not the man! Most ppl think he did not beat big george!
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The lineage is not up for debate.
Yes it is.
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Sven Ottke was never a lineal champion.
U miss-understand! I am not arguing for bummy otke's lineal claim's. I was highlighting the fact that u said u are dealing in pure fact. Otke is UNDEFEATED if we are to just accept thing's without question! In truth he has many losses. Otke is not undefeated and brigg's did not deserve the lineage.
A lot of ppl think Foreman dominated Briggs. Foreman consistently backed Briggs up, landed harder and more frequent punches, and had Briggs hurt on more than one occasion.
After the fight, Briggs was more surprised than anyone when the verdict was announced in his favor. The decision seemed inexcusable, not just because Briggs received the nod, but because he won by such absurdly lopsided margins on two of the scorecards.
