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I use to watch ESPN which showed Hagler when he was fighting in 1970's and he was amazing. His speed, skills and fitness were exceptional and he slowed down as champion relying on his great chin and toughness to best his opponents.
When Hagler eventually became champion there was no way was he going to give up his titles to move up in weight. Marvin gave us historic fights which should be appreciated.
i find that strange as i remember back in two thousand one when a roy jones v felix trinidad fight was being seriously discussed. both were pound for pound, roy was at light heavy & felix was a unified jr middleweight champion preparing to go into the middleweight tournament. the plan was for tito to have his two fights & become undisputed at middle & then move up to fight royQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
I’m not sure how this correlates with Hagler. Different worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICi find that strange as i remember back in two thousand one when a roy jones v felix trinidad fight was being seriously discussed. both were pound for pound, roy was at light heavy & felix was a unified jr middleweight champion preparing to go into the middleweight tournament. the plan was for tito to have his two fights & become undisputed at middle & then move up to fight royQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Hagler was not a big MW.
they weighed in the same day back then.
Hagler probably walked the streets at less than 170lbs , so why would he bother fighting at 175?
There isn’t the silly money there is now, but you can safely say Hagler would earn WAY more fighting SRL than he would fighting Michael Spinks.
Spinks as we now know was on his way up the weights.
Like @Master said, I can never remember the Hagler / Spinks fight ever being talked about.
I’m not sure how this correlates with Hagler. Different worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICi find that strange as i remember back in two thousand one when a roy jones v felix trinidad fight was being seriously discussed. both were pound for pound, roy was at light heavy & felix was a unified jr middleweight champion preparing to go into the middleweight tournament. the plan was for tito to have his two fights & become undisputed at middle & then move up to fight royQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Hagler was not a big MW.
they weighed in the same day back then.
Hagler probably walked the streets at less than 170lbs , so why would he bother fighting at 175?
There isn’t the silly money there is now, but you can safely say Hagler would earn WAY more fighting SRL than he would fighting Michael Spinks.
Spinks as we now know was on his way up the weights.
Like @Master said, I can never remember the Hagler / Spinks fight ever being talked about.
it correlates with marvin because there was talk of a smaller guy moving up. i also remember talk that bernard hopkins should have moved up to try & avenge his loss to roy, bernard was trying to set a record for defenses & i think both their egos got in the way. it correlates because there was talk of middleweights moving up to light heavy, so it seems strange that there wasn't any talk of marvin moving up to face michael, especially around late eighty threeQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not sure how this correlates with Hagler. Different worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICi find that strange as i remember back in two thousand one when a roy jones v felix trinidad fight was being seriously discussed. both were pound for pound, roy was at light heavy & felix was a unified jr middleweight champion preparing to go into the middleweight tournament. the plan was for tito to have his two fights & become undisputed at middle & then move up to fight royQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Hagler was not a big MW.
they weighed in the same day back then.
Hagler probably walked the streets at less than 170lbs , so why would he bother fighting at 175?
There isn’t the silly money there is now, but you can safely say Hagler would earn WAY more fighting SRL than he would fighting Michael Spinks.
Spinks as we now know was on his way up the weights.
Like @Master said, I can never remember the Hagler / Spinks fight ever being talked about.
marvin was not a big middleweight is an excuse. harry greb, micky walker & sam langford among others are said to be about the same size, didn't they weigh in on the same day back then? different worlds indeed
marvin should have bothered fighting at light heavyweight for the challenge & risk
i agree that marvin would earn more fighting ray than michael, that is my entire point. i give marvin a pass for the last five to six years of his career because he had already cleaned out middleweight by then & was looking for bigger money against lesser challenges
michael spinks became the man at light heavy in early eighty three & didn't move up until late eighty five
like i said it seems strange that marvin v michael was never talked about, as history had many middleweights or smaller moving up to light heavy or higher & as i highlighted roy jones v felix trinidad was being seriously discussed when tito hadn't even fought at middleweight yet & the roy v bernard rematch was also talked about
Fuck me! This is where I step out again.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICit correlates with marvin because there was talk of a smaller guy moving up. i also remember talk that bernard hopkins should have moved up to try & avenge his loss to roy, bernard was trying to set a record for defenses & i think both their egos got in the way. it correlates because there was talk of middleweights moving up to light heavy, so it seems strange that there wasn't any talk of marvin moving up to face michael, especially around late eighty threeQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraI’m not sure how this correlates with Hagler. Different worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by TICi find that strange as i remember back in two thousand one when a roy jones v felix trinidad fight was being seriously discussed. both were pound for pound, roy was at light heavy & felix was a unified jr middleweight champion preparing to go into the middleweight tournament. the plan was for tito to have his two fights & become undisputed at middle & then move up to fight royQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Hagler was not a big MW.
they weighed in the same day back then.
Hagler probably walked the streets at less than 170lbs , so why would he bother fighting at 175?
There isn’t the silly money there is now, but you can safely say Hagler would earn WAY more fighting SRL than he would fighting Michael Spinks.
Spinks as we now know was on his way up the weights.
Like @Master said, I can never remember the Hagler / Spinks fight ever being talked about.
marvin was not a big middleweight is an excuse. harry greb, micky walker & sam langford among others are said to be about the same size, didn't they weigh in on the same day back then? different worlds indeed
marvin should have bothered fighting at light heavyweight for the challenge & risk
i agree that marvin would earn more fighting ray than michael, that is my entire point. i give marvin a pass for the last five to six years of his career because he had already cleaned out middleweight by then & was looking for bigger money against lesser challenges
michael spinks became the man at light heavy in early eighty three & didn't move up until late eighty five
like i said it seems strange that marvin v michael was never talked about, as history had many middleweights or smaller moving up to light heavy or higher & as i highlighted roy jones v felix trinidad was being seriously discussed when tito hadn't even fought at middleweight yet & the roy v bernard rematch was also talked about
If you can’t understand the difference between boxing in the 1900s and the 1980s and then the differences between the 80s and modern day, I can’t help you mate, cos I haven’t got the time or inclination to educate you on it.
Comparing Apples and Oranges mate.
Fucking hell, trying to say Hagler/SRL/Hearns are comparable with Harry Greb,Micky Walker and Sam Langford because they all did same day weigh-ins!!
Dear me. I’m speechless.
settle down primo carnera, we're just having a discussion
i understand some of the differences between the nineteen hundreds boxing, eighties & modern boxing just fine
i'm not comparing apples & oranges, just giving you some examples of some smaller guys who moved up
"Fucking hell, trying to say Hagler/SRL/Hearns are comparable with Harry Greb,Micky Walker and Sam Langford because they all did same day weigh-ins!!"
you conveniently missed when i said "among others" two of the guys you mention ray leonard & tommy hearns were using same day weigh ins at welter & moved up higher, roberto was the same at lightweight. if marvin had of wanted to move up he could have
settle down primo carnera, we're just having a discussion
i understand some of the differences between the nineteen hundreds boxing, eighties & modern boxing just fine
i'm not comparing apples & oranges, just giving you some examples of some smaller guys who moved up
"Fucking hell, trying to say Hagler/SRL/Hearns are comparable with Harry Greb,Micky Walker and Sam Langford because they all did same day weigh-ins!!"
you conveniently missed when i said "among others" two of the guys you mention ray leonard & tommy hearns were using same day weigh ins at welter & moved up higher, roberto was the same at lightweight. if marvin had of wanted to move up he could have
I see we're still discrediting Hagler with some obscure purpose in mind....
:D
creating a strawman argument again. no one is discrediting anything, as i've said repeatedly. some of you guys just have rose tinted lenses onQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
There is no harm in Tic having the discussion. It looks like Spinks moved up to heavyweight after he cleaned out his division.
Every fighter chases the money including the old time greats like Grebb. Legacy is not the decisive factor no matter what the boxers may say.
Absolutely fair. But would you start a thread about a Boxer who has just passed away and simply put “Legend”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Then a few years later, question his legacy by asking if he gets a pass for fighting smaller guys? Even though these “smaller guys” are all time greats?
Yep, “Legend”.
why wouldn't i start a thread about a boxer who has just passed away & simply put "legend" when i think he's a legend?Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraAbsolutely fair. But would you start a thread about a Boxer who has just passed away and simply put “Legend”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Then a few years later, question his legacy by asking if he gets a pass for fighting smaller guys? Even though these “smaller guys” are all time greats?
Yep, “Legend”.
"Then a few years later"
i've already said that i searched & the only other thread on the front page was called marvin haggler, the site has been having issues for weeks, sorry that i'm not prepared to wait for minutes on end to search through each page to try & find another marvin hagler thread to post in
"question his legacy by asking if he gets a pass for fighting smaller guys"
once again as i've mentioned several times already in this thread, so i'm not sure if you are now ignoring that intentionally, i am not questioning marvin's legacy. i've already stated that in my opinion he was already a legend before the roberto duran fight. i'm asking if marvin gets a pass for fighting smaller guys, for bigger money over the last five to six years of his career, instead of looking for bigger challenges
"Even though these “smaller guys” are all time greats?"
yes these smaller guys are all time greats but as i've asked previously & no one has answered, where do you rate these smaller guys all time at middleweight?
yep, marvin is a legend
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Maybe I'm just more cynical than most. Why suddenly start a discussion on having to (cough) "give Hagler a pass" out of nowhere... except maybe to later draw comparisons with another fighter someone is also trying to "give a pass to"??
Huh?
Huh?
:D
Something smells fishy.
nah it's because someone lives rent free in your head. it's very rare these days to find you posting about much else when talking boxingQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Maybe I'm just more cynical than most.