Re: Where does Toney go from here?
I think Toney lost because when you're past 30 and you're 70+ fights into the game people and boxing promoters and so on can take you for granted.
I honestly think everyone is awestruck at "Sam Peter's power" when in all actuality I think his rabbit punching does the most damage. That and the fact they TRY to put him in with chinny fighters...they were licking their chops when Wlad took the fight as I am sure they were happy to be the "first power puncher" to fight Toney too.
Sam Peter is good, he's exciting but he didn't win that fight. He was given the decision because he's young, he hits hard and KO's people and James Toney just doesn't do that....it's a crock of shit, Toney has been too good to boxing to be treated like that
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Sam Peter is good, he's exciting but he didn't win that fight. He was given the decision because he's young, he hits hard and KO's people and James Toney just doesn't do that....it's a crock of S***, Toney has been too good to boxing to be treated like that
That is true and it pisses me off that people except this and say Peter is better for boxing at this time...Oh so just take all the training time out, the preperation and the fact that James won that fight and tell Toney hey I know this is a competitive sport and you earned a hard fought victory, but nothing personal James just business and we appreciate everything you have done over the years. James you at 38 and not being a KO artist you are not what we are looking for at this time, we have to give the nod on this one to this kid who knocks people out even though he dosent possess half your skill and will never.
IMO the judges had there score cards all filled out before the 1st bell sounded...
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Sam Peter is good, he's exciting but he didn't win that fight. He was given the decision because he's young, he hits hard and KO's people and James Toney just doesn't do that....it's a crock of S***, Toney has been too good to boxing to be treated like that
That is true and it pisses me off that people except this and say Peter is better for boxing at this time...Oh so just take all the training time out, the preperation and the fact that James won that fight and tell Toney hey I know this is a competitive sport and you earned a hard fought victory, but nothing personal James just business and we appreciate everything you have done over the years. James you at 38 and not being a KO artist you are not what we are looking for at this time, we have to give the nod on this one to this kid who knocks people out even though he dosent possess half your skill and will never.
I watched the fight again this evening and you would truly be hard pressed to give anything more than 5 rounds to Peter. I had Toney up by 2 rounds and with the point deduction that makes Toney the winner by 3 points. The final scorelines were a farce to be honest. It was a difficult fight to judge and some rounds were close. But on repeated viewings Toney the winner by 3 points is my final conclusion on the fight.
Toneys jab was sharp and he took the fight to Peter more than Peter took the fight to Toney, which is unusual to say the least. It wasnt the worst decision ever but it was pretty off kilter in my book...
I expect Toney has 2 years left in him, he isnt done with yet...I would dearly love a fight with Wlad to happen in the next year....
Im not saying Toney would win, but it would be the ultimate spectacle heavyweight boxing could offer....
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
If Toney could fight like a heavyweight, go out there and actually try to destroy some people this question wouldn't even be asked. But the facts are this, no matter how talented James is we're talking about heavyweight boxing and heavyweight boxing should consist of devistating punching. It's one thing for 2 welterweights to slug it out over the course of 12 rounds, they're small and explosive - it's a pleasure to watch even for casual fans. But with our current crop of heavyweights thats just not in the cards, so James should either do one of 3 things. Get in better shape, learn how to finish or atleast punish these big heavyweights, go down to a weight where he can truely be effective, or quit.
Granted I think he won the fight, but also lost all rights to complain with how he did it. When a heavyweight fighter has it in his mind to go the distance every single fucking fight - there's a problem.
Talented yes, just not good for the division thus far (novelty aside).
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
If Toney could fight like a heavyweight, go out there and actually try to destroy some people this question wouldn't even be asked. But the facts are this, no matter how talented James is we're talking about heavyweight boxing and heavyweight boxing should consist of devistating punching. It's one thing for 2 welterweights to slug it out over the course of 12 rounds, they're small and explosive - it's a pleasure to watch even for casual fans. But with our current crop of heavyweights thats just not in the cards, so James should either do one of 3 things. Get in better shape, learn how to finish or atleast punish these big heavyweights, go down to a weight where he can truely be effective, or quit.
Granted I think he won the fight, but also lost all rights to complain with how he did it. When a heavyweight fighter has it in his mind to go the distance every single fucking fight - there's a problem.
Talented yes, just not good for the division thus far (novelty aside).
I got to respectfully Disagree. while I do enjoy watching a big knockout, its nice to see Heavyweight actually have the energy to throw punches for 12 rounds str8, without all that holding crap. ;) remember Toney didn’t run, he engaged Peter often. now if he was in reverse the whole time and ran I would agree with you, but Toney brought it, and did his part to try and win the fight. It was a good refreshing Heavyweight watch.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
I agree better than some of the other recent fights, but still not a throwback to how things were years ago. If he could get himself into better condition and be more active (a little less flat footed), then I'd praise Toney for sticking around the heavyweight scene.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
If Toney could fight like a heavyweight, go out there and actually try to destroy some people this question wouldn't even be asked. But the facts are this, no matter how talented James is we're talking about heavyweight boxing and heavyweight boxing should consist of devistating punching. It's one thing for 2 welterweights to slug it out over the course of 12 rounds, they're small and explosive - it's a pleasure to watch even for casual fans. But with our current crop of heavyweights thats just not in the cards, so James should either do one of 3 things. Get in better shape, learn how to finish or atleast punish these big heavyweights, go down to a weight where he can truely be effective, or quit.
Granted I think he won the fight, but also lost all rights to complain with how he did it. When a heavyweight fighter has it in his mind to go the distance every single F****** fight - there's a problem.
Talented yes, just not good for the division thus far (novelty aside).
I totally disagree!!!!! A Win is a Win bottom line no exception how can you justifiably tell a Fighter I know you won but we dont like the way you did it.....Thats the beauty of it James is defying logic by getting in there and beating these guys without swinging for the fences, all the while not getting seriously hurt or rocked in the process he should be rewarded for being a Boxing Machine....Instead he gets the shaft.... Last time I checked the name of the sport is called "BOXING" not "POWER PUNCHING" or "HAYMAKING"!!!!
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Granted I think he won the fight, but also lost all rights to complain with how he did it. When a heavyweight fighter has it in his mind to go the distance every single fucking fight - there's a problem.
Talented yes, just not good for the division thus far (novelty aside).
:coolclick:
I agree. when a heavyweight intentionally takes a fight to the cards, he is assuming the risk of a bad decision. Its the heavyweight puncher that decides his own fate.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Granted I think he won the fight, but also lost all rights to complain with how he did it. When a heavyweight fighter has it in his mind to go the distance every single F****** fight - there's a problem.
Talented yes, just not good for the division thus far (novelty aside).
:coolclick:
I agree. when a heavyweight intentionally takes a fight to the cards, he is assuming the risk of a bad decision. Its the heavyweight puncher that decides his own fate.
Piss off!!! ::**
Boxing has rules and its about winning the most rounds....Toney did that...
Fuck boxing politics!!!!
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Oh, I opened this thread thinking it was about Tony Blair.
???
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
If Toney could fight like a heavyweight, go out there and actually try to destroy some people this question wouldn't even be asked. But the facts are this, no matter how talented James is we're talking about heavyweight boxing and heavyweight boxing should consist of devastating punching. It's one thing for 2 welterweights to slug it out over the course of 12 rounds, they're small and explosive - it's a pleasure to watch even for casual fans. But with our current crop of heavyweights thats just not in the cards, so James should either do one of 3 things. Get in better shape, learn how to finish or at least punish these big heavyweights, go down to a weight where he can truly be effective, or quit.
Granted I think he won the fight, but also lost all rights to complain with how he did it. When a heavyweight fighter has it in his mind to go the distance every single F****** fight - there's a problem.
Talented yes, just not good for the division thus far (novelty aside).
I totally disagree!!!!! A Win is a Win bottom line no exception how can you justifiably tell a Fighter I know you won but we dont like the way you did it.....Thats the beauty of it James is defying logic by getting in there and beating these guys without swinging for the fences, all the while not getting seriously hurt or rocked in the process he should be rewarded for being a Boxing Machine....Instead he gets the shaft.... Last time I checked the name of the sport is called "BOXING" not "POWER PUNCHING" or "HAYMAKING"!!!!
I understand that, but think of the bigger picture. Toney set a standard at the lower weight classes, a standard he cannot met at heavyweight because of one simple reason - he's lazy. I know what you're saying and totally respect that, the very thing I love about boxing is that it's a high speed chess match and the smarter fighter wins. But also think about the poor state boxing is in compared to what it once was, partly because the heavyweight division is a lackluster and Toney only contributes to that lackluster. At a lower weight class it'd be a different story, if he'd come into shape it'd be a different story. This take no chances because I'm fat and out of shape attitude Toney is bringing into these fights has to go if he wants the majority of people to take him seriously. I respect what he does and see the beauty in his tactics, but remember it's not just about winning the most rounds, it's about giving it your all. And until James quits making daily visits to burger king and take the sport that pays him more many than he or any other human being deserves, just a little more serious - we shouldn't take him serious.
Just a personal belief of mine that boxing can get to where it once was, and improving the heavyweight division is the first step. Maybe the 2nd step is to get Toney in shape, because people always get excited about his fights. But heres the even bigger problem. They get more excited about his antics before and after the fight than the actual fighting, unless he comes into the ring prepared like against Holyfield. Not a single person on here can tell me the way he fought last weekend merits all the shit he was saying. If you're gonna talk knockout, come into the ring with the mentality of I'm gonna do what I have to do. Yes fights must be hyped up, but in return it leaves a bad taste in the casual fans mouth when they buy into that hype and get let down again, and again, and again.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
I think someone CC'd u back lance, not sure who tho ???
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
If Toney could fight like a heavyweight, go out there and actually try to destroy some people this question wouldn't even be asked. But the facts are this, no matter how talented James is we're talking about heavyweight boxing and heavyweight boxing should consist of devastating punching. It's one thing for 2 welterweights to slug it out over the course of 12 rounds, they're small and explosive - it's a pleasure to watch even for casual fans. But with our current crop of heavyweights thats just not in the cards, so James should either do one of 3 things. Get in better shape, learn how to finish or at least punish these big heavyweights, go down to a weight where he can truly be effective, or quit.
Granted I think he won the fight, but also lost all rights to complain with how he did it. When a heavyweight fighter has it in his mind to go the distance every single F****** fight - there's a problem.
Talented yes, just not good for the division thus far (novelty aside).
I totally disagree!!!!! A Win is a Win bottom line no exception how can you justifiably tell a Fighter I know you won but we dont like the way you did it.....Thats the beauty of it James is defying logic by getting in there and beating these guys without swinging for the fences, all the while not getting seriously hurt or rocked in the process he should be rewarded for being a Boxing Machine....Instead he gets the shaft.... Last time I checked the name of the sport is called "BOXING" not "POWER PUNCHING" or "HAYMAKING"!!!!
I understand that, but think of the bigger picture. Toney set a standard at the lower weight classes, a standard he cannot met at heavyweight because of one simple reason - he's lazy. I know what you're saying and totally respect that, the very thing I love about boxing is that it's a high speed chess match and the smarter fighter wins. But also think about the poor state boxing is in compared to what it once was, partly because the heavyweight division is a lackluster and Toney only contributes to that lackluster. At a lower weight class it'd be a different story, if he'd come into shape it'd be a different story. This take no chances because I'm fat and out of shape attitude Toney is bringing into these fights has to go if he wants the majority of people to take him seriously. I respect what he does and see the beauty in his tactics, but remember it's not just about winning the most rounds, it's about giving it your all. And until James quits making daily visits to burger king and take the sport that pays him more many than he or any other human being deserves, just a little more serious - we shouldn't take him serious.
Just a personal belief of mine that boxing can get to where it once was, and improving the heavyweight division is the first step. Maybe the 2nd step is to get Toney in shape, because people always get excited about his fights. But heres the even bigger problem. They get more excited about his antics before and after the fight than the actual fighting, unless he comes into the ring prepared like against Holyfield. Not a single person on here can tell me the way he fought last weekend merits all the S*** he was saying. If you're gonna talk knockout, come into the ring with the mentality of I'm gonna do what I have to do. Yes fights must be hyped up, but in return it leaves a bad taste in the casual fans mouth when they buy into that hype and get let down again, and again, and again.
Again I see what you are saying and its deplorable that most can acknowledge Toney won but say they dont like his style so he wasnt awarded the victory....
The fact is that David got in there and slayed Goliath!!!! but we are looking at the bigger picture ::** The problem is that we as Boxing fans are force fed fights that are manipulated and guided for "The Bigger Picture" I myswell start watching pro-wrestling....
Toney got in the ring and defied odds as a natural Middleweight and outboxed and outclassed "The Next Big Thing" in the Heavyweight division...Not to mention he was never in serious trouble, The same couldn't be said for The divisions so called main man Wlad Klit......This was just wrong and I am done with this subject..
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
no need to get offended, just a discussion :)
I agree he defied the odds, but none of that compares to his lazyness, in alot of peoples eyes
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleights
no need to get offended, just a discussion :)
I agree he defied the odds, but none of that compares to his lazyness, in alot of peoples eyes
Wasn't offended at all just making a blanket statement bro it's all good ;)
