Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easliy be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easliy be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
I have to agree with you their fire i still think he is 10 but p4p is a hard thing to judge
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Miranda could have easily been the champ after his fight w/ abraham... most think he beat the champ, he did break abraham's jaw in two places...
so that would be two championship fights..
P4P is not based solely on what you have did, it is a combo of what you have done and what you can still do... that is why cotto is a P4P #10 and DLH isnt...
I expect pavlik to take that 10 spot away from cotto in the next issue but we will see...
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Miranda could have easily been the champ after his fight w/ abraham... most think he beat the champ, he did break abraham's jaw in two places...
so that would be two championship fights..
P4P is not based solely on what you have did, it is a combo of what you have done and what you can still do... that is why cotto is a P4P #10 and DLH isnt...
I expect pavlik to take that 10 spot away from cotto in the next issue but we will see...
Cotto has done more than De La Hoya over the last 3 or 4 years, Pavlik has done more only in the past week mate. He needs to win a couple more fights yet.
It has taken Cotto about 18 months since his arrival as a big star to just break into the top 10 p4p. Pavlik could be there in his next fight if he rematches and beats Taylor again. But imo none of the guys I've mentioned deserve being demoted to accomodate him yet.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
"If you think no refs would stop the fight I should stop debating this with you"bilbo..... ::** please... so basically your saying that anyone who gets knocked down, than the fight could have been stopped by "some refs"... yeah that was a good point you made ::**
if he is not a top 10 than he is top 11 or 12 what is your point???
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
"If you think no refs would stop the fight I should stop debating this with you"bilbo..... ::** please... so basically your saying that anyone who gets knocked down, than the fight could have been stopped by "some refs"... yeah that was a good point you made ::**
if he is not a top 10 than he is top 11 or 12 what is your point???
He's around 14 or 15.
I assume you havn't seen many fights if you thought all refs would have let that carry on. ::**
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Miranda could have easily been the champ after his fight w/ abraham... most think he beat the champ, he did break abraham's jaw in two places...
so that would be two championship fights..
P4P is not based solely on what you have did, it is a combo of what you have done and what you can still do... that is why cotto is a P4P #10 and DLH isnt...
I expect pavlik to take that 10 spot away from cotto in the next issue but we will see...
Cotto has done more than De La Hoya over the last 3 or 4 years, Pavlik has done more only in the past week mate. He needs to win a couple more fights yet.
It has taken Cotto about 18 months since his arrival as a big star to just break into the top 10 p4p. Pavlik could be there in his next fight if he rematches and beats Taylor again. But imo none of the guys I've mentioned deserve being demoted to accomodate him yet.
but cotto has never beaten a p4per,and he has never beaten the best and his division, he hasnt won when he was the underdog and has had sub-par performances..... pavlik has been the most dominate fighter this year against the #1 contender and the #1 in his division...
my point is he is at the top 10 P4P level... again what is yours, where would you rate pavlik??
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
"If you think no refs would stop the fight I should stop debating this with you"bilbo..... ::** please... so basically your saying that anyone who gets knocked down, than the fight could have been stopped by "some refs"... yeah that was a good point you made ::**
if he is not a top 10 than he is top 11 or 12 what is your point???
He's around 14 or 15.
I assume you havn't seen many fights if you thought all refs would have let that carry on. ::**
man you got me there, I havent seen very many fights, and that is why I think refs dont stop fights after a guy gets knocked down the first time and then gets up half way threw the count...
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Miranda could have easily been the champ after his fight w/ abraham... most think he beat the champ, he did break abraham's jaw in two places...
so that would be two championship fights..
P4P is not based solely on what you have did, it is a combo of what you have done and what you can still do... that is why cotto is a P4P #10 and DLH isnt...
I expect pavlik to take that 10 spot away from cotto in the next issue but we will see...
Cotto has done more than De La Hoya over the last 3 or 4 years, Pavlik has done more only in the past week mate. He needs to win a couple more fights yet.
It has taken Cotto about 18 months since his arrival as a big star to just break into the top 10 p4p. Pavlik could be there in his next fight if he rematches and beats Taylor again. But imo none of the guys I've mentioned deserve being demoted to accomodate him yet.
but cotto has never beaten a p4per,and he has never beaten the best and his division, he hasnt won when he was the underdog and has had sub-par performances..... pavlik has been the most dominate fighter this year against the #1 contender and the #1 in his division...
my point is he is at the top 10 P4P level... again what is yours, where would you rate pavlik??
As I said above he's around 14 or 15. Cotto may not have had the chance to face a steller opponent yet but his chance will come next month. Whomever wins between Mosely and Cotto is p4p no question, one will probably replace the other.
It's all well and good saying someone should be top 10 p4p but it comes at the expense of another fighter and right now there are at least 10 fighters in the world across all weight divisions who have achieved more in their careers than Pavlik.
Taylor was a good champion, the man at 160 lbs but it was only one fight.
Before that Pavlik wasn't even in probably the top 30 or so p4p so he's jumped around 20 places!
He can higher again if he wins next time out.
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds91
6,7 or 8 on the p4p list
He's not top 10 p4p yet guys. Come on people let's have some perspective here, he's had ONE world title fight. ONE in his entire career. Yes won in great style and had to pick himself off the floor to do so but that doesn't make you one of the top 10 p4p guys on the planet.
He needs to defend his belt, clean up the division and prove himself over a period of time before he gets a top 10 p4p slot. Remember top 10 p4p is for ELITE boxers only who have PROVEN themselves TIME AND TIME AGAIN ;)
We don't yet know how Pavlik would handle a slick boxer like Hopkins or a guy with blazing handspeed like Calzaghe, or an elusive impossible to hit guy like Spinks.
You may think he wins all those fights and he well might but he doesn't get a top 10 p4p slot UNTIL he does it.
Out of curiosity you guys who are saying he's top 10 p4p, when Buster Douglas shocked the world by KO'ing the indestructible Mike Tyson was he your p4p number 1 fighter in the world? Did he make the top 10? ???
How stupid you would have looked in his next fight and subsequent career collapse if you would have hailed him as one of boxings elite.
What about Tarver Ko'ing Jones, he should have definintely got top 3 p4p then seeing as Jones was number 1 p4p in the world at that time.
PERSPECTIVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!
cotto could easily be in the top ten, he hasnt really beaten that many people, hatton was a P4Per after he beat kostya....
pavlik is probably the P4P hardest hitter in boxing
pavlik handled taylor handspeed well...
Pavlik has a fast, sharp, and very powerful jab... very powerful left hook, has a good chin...
lets have perspective about this: taylor beat p4p hopkins twice, tied winky, and got ktfo, literally, against pavlik.... that means something...
But you guys are talking about this fight as if it was a Tyson Spinks style one round demolition job.
Pavlik was the one almost KTFO in the second round. Most referee's would have stopped it right there and then and we would all be talking about how great Jermain Taylor looked. He was also trailing on all three scorecards going into the 7th round so it was by now means a blowout.
A rematch between the two could easily swing the other way, these two were very evenly matched.
Anyways and I can't believe I have to keep saying this but you CANNOT become a legit Top 10 p4p star on the back of a single fight.
That was Pavliks first and ONLY championship fight. He's hasn't even defended his belt once yet, how does he leapfrog the guys I mentioned in my top 10 who have all won multiple world titles, who have made multiple title defenses and who in many cases have won belts in several divisions?
This is like claiming that Wigan are one of the top 5 biggest soccer clubs in the world if they manage to win the FA Cup this season, just stupid.
If he continues to win and can solidify his reign as world champ then he'll get into the top 10 p4p rankings, but not before.
What are you talking about "most refs would have stopped it," have you seen the fight.. pavlik was up and walking around on around the 5th to 6th count, no ref would have stopped the fight... i've heard a couple people on other sites saying that and that is ridiculous, pavlik was probably hurt the most AFTER he got up and was hit a right from taylor and stumbled, yet no ref would have stopped it...
and pavlik taking the best shots from the "second" hardest hitting middleweight and getting up and knocking him out is what legends are made of....
Despite what the dumba$$ judges think, taylor only won 2 rounds and it was quickly becoming a one-sided fight.....
again hatton became a legit P4Per after one campionship fight.. your acting like pavlik didnt just destroy the #1 contender AND THEN HE BEAT THE UNDEFEATED, #1 MIDDLEWEIGHT...
If you think that no other ref's would have stopped that fight then I shouldn't even debate this further with you.
But just to humour you who out of the current top 10 p4p stars would you kick out to replace with Pavlik?
Hatton? 43-0 140 lb ring champ for the past 2 years, 4 time world champ and in two weight divisions?
Cotto? 30-0 Two time world champ, two weight divisions, 10 straight title fight wins.
Cazaghe? 43-0 Longest reigning world champ, most title defenses ever in 168 lb division, Ring champion, double world champ.
R Marquez Double weight world champ,Ring champion at 118, beat THE man at 121
Vazquez, double world super bantamweight champ, Ring champ.
I shouldn't even need to mention the top 5 p4p here as they are all multiple weight champs whose success has spanned for several years.
Pavlik WILL be top 10 p4p if he continues as he is but he's not there yet.
"If you think no refs would stop the fight I should stop debating this with you"bilbo..... ::** please... so basically your saying that anyone who gets knocked down, than the fight could have been stopped by "some refs"... yeah that was a good point you made ::**
if he is not a top 10 than he is top 11 or 12 what is your point???
He's around 14 or 15.
I assume you havn't seen many fights if you thought all refs would have let that carry on. ::**
man you got me there, I havent seen very many fights, and that is why I think refs dont stop fights after a guy gets knocked down the first time and then gets up half way threw the count...
It wasn't when he went down that they would have stopped it but when he was all over the place for the 30 seconds or afterwards. He got heeled and staggered across the whole ring. Trust me on this there are a lot of refs who would have waved it off right there.
Remember this fight?
[youtube=425,350]Kv1Et0W3xeI[/youtube]
:)
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Ok well i tell you this much if he beats Abrham or Taylor again he has to be top 10
Re: where will Pavlik be in the pound for pound list?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Ok well i tell you this much if he beats Abrham or Taylor again he has to be top 10
Absolutely agree 100% :coolclick:
