Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
The boxer gets what they get because the market dictate what they get. It's call an open market system. You know we have that little thing called capitalism in the west. A top boxer like a Manny or Floyd are getting their market's worth.
I'll say this MMA is the equivalent of the NFL (popular mainly in 1 country but no one cares outside of AMerica), while boxing just like soccer has a larger and more worldwide following would be the equivalent of the EPL.
They didn't know who the fuck was Brock Lesnar in China, but they do know who Manny Pacquiao was when I visited there last year and talked to some of the locals.
Sure MMA is growing but mainly in America and probably Canada. As I've said for a martial art organization the Asians in Asia sure don't really give a shit about it or the Latinos in Latin America besides Brazilians.
BTW popular in America does not mean the world. If that was the case the NFL would be the no.1 sports league worldwide, but it's not.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
The boxer gets what they get because the market dictate what they get. It's call an open market system. You know we have that little thing called capitalism in the west. A top boxer like a Manny or Floyd are getting their market's worth.
I'll say this MMA is the equivalent of the NFL (popular mainly in 1 country but no one cares outside of AMerica), while boxing just like soccer has a larger and more worldwide following would be the equivalent of the EPL.
They didn't know who the fuck was Brock Lesnar in China, but they do know who Manny Pacquiao was when I visited there last year and talked to some of the locals.
Sure MMA is growing but mainly in America and probably Canada. As I've said for a martial art organization the Asians in Asia sure don't really give a shit about it or the Latinos in Latin America besides Brazilians.
BTW popular in America does not mean the world. If that was the case the NFL would be the no.1 sports league worldwide, but it's not.
MMA is fucking massive in Canada and it's growing at a astronomical pace. Nobody outside of Montreal gives a flying fuck about boxing here.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
The boxer gets what they get because the market dictate what they get. It's call an open market system. You know we have that little thing called capitalism in the west. A top boxer like a Manny or Floyd are getting their market's worth.
I'll say this MMA is the equivalent of the NFL (popular mainly in 1 country but no one cares outside of AMerica), while boxing just like soccer has a larger and more worldwide following would be the equivalent of the EPL.
They didn't know who the fuck was Brock Lesnar in China, but they do know who Manny Pacquiao was when I visited there last year and talked to some of the locals.
Sure MMA is growing but mainly in America and probably Canada. As I've said for a martial art organization the Asians in Asia sure don't really give a shit about it or the Latinos in Latin America besides Brazilians.
BTW popular in America does not mean the world. If that was the case the NFL would be the no.1 sports league worldwide, but it's not.
Not an accurate statement at all. I live in Japan and MMA is a very big deal over and it is more popular than boxing is over here.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Caine3078
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
The boxer gets what they get because the market dictate what they get. It's call an open market system. You know we have that little thing called capitalism in the west. A top boxer like a Manny or Floyd are getting their market's worth.
I'll say this MMA is the equivalent of the NFL (popular mainly in 1 country but no one cares outside of AMerica), while boxing just like soccer has a larger and more worldwide following would be the equivalent of the EPL.
They didn't know who the fuck was Brock Lesnar in China, but they do know who Manny Pacquiao was when I visited there last year and talked to some of the locals.
Sure MMA is growing but mainly in America and probably Canada. As I've said for a martial art organization the Asians in Asia sure don't really give a shit about it or the Latinos in Latin America besides Brazilians.
BTW popular in America does not mean the world. If that was the case the NFL would be the no.1 sports league worldwide, but it's not.
Not an accurate statement at all. I live in Japan and MMA is a very big deal over and it is more popular than boxing is over here.
This is true of Korea too. No doubt MMA is growing in popularity at a rapid rate.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Caine3078
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
The boxer gets what they get because the market dictate what they get. It's call an open market system. You know we have that little thing called capitalism in the west. A top boxer like a Manny or Floyd are getting their market's worth.
I'll say this MMA is the equivalent of the NFL (popular mainly in 1 country but no one cares outside of AMerica), while boxing just like soccer has a larger and more worldwide following would be the equivalent of the EPL.
They didn't know who the fuck was Brock Lesnar in China, but they do know who Manny Pacquiao was when I visited there last year and talked to some of the locals.
Sure MMA is growing but mainly in America and probably Canada. As I've said for a martial art organization the Asians in Asia sure don't really give a shit about it or the Latinos in Latin America besides Brazilians.
BTW popular in America does not mean the world. If that was the case the NFL would be the no.1 sports league worldwide, but it's not.
Not an accurate statement at all. I live in Japan and MMA is a very big deal over and it is more popular than boxing is over here.
Japan was also another country I visited during winter of '09. Sure MMA is popular there but over boxing or Sumo wrestling? BTW I visited a few days after the Naito-Kameda WBC flyweight championship bout, that's how I learned it was one of the most watched events in Japan's television history. The Japanese are sensible that they didn't put boxing on premium cable channels like HBO or Showtime but still have it on free network tv.
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In 2009, Daisuke Naito and Koki Kameda fought for the WBC flyweight (112 lbs) title and averaged a 43.1% rating (approx. 54 million viewers), peaking at 52.1% (approx. 66 million viewers).
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The Naito vs. Kameda fight showed that fight sport is not dead as a high ratings product in Japan and that MMA is not being promoted correctly.
Who Needs the Heavier Weights? Not Japan -- MMA Fighting
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The Sunday fight between Daisuke Naito and Koki Kameda did magnificent TV ratings as expected in Japan, with
the fight averaging 43.1% and peaking at 52.1% on TBS (Tokyo Broadcasting System). The fight was billed as the "Japanese Fight of the Century," and not only lived up to it with its insanely impressive TV performance, but lived up to it in the ring, too. It may not have been a Fight of the Year contender or anything, but it was a very intense fight, an impressive boxing display by Kameda, and a valiant effort from Naito.
Naito-Kameda fight does ridiculous TV ratings in Japan - Bad Left Hook
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Don't be too hard on Toney. I wrestled in high school and I and anyone else who has done wrestling will tell you that those low shots are VERY hard to stop for guys with wrestling experience, let alone a 42 year old boxer who hasn't trained any wrestling until recently.
Toney was clearly banking on Randy either going in for the clinch (which is what he usually does, as it is his specialty as a Greco-Roman wrestler) or shooting a mid-level takedown (the common shots you see in UFC). Randy threw a HUGE curveball to Toney because not only is that technique something he's NEVER EVER done in MMA, its a technique you VERY RARELY see.
And Toney did impress me on the ground, believe it or not. Go back and watch Art Jimmerson in the first UFC. Royce took the boxer down and Art was PETRIFIED. Toney looked relatively calm, he didn't turtle up or quit when he took some shots, and he was taking the right precautions to escape the side choke. He lasted a lot longer on the ground with a grappler than I thought he would, and surely a lot longer than Couture would standing with him.
Basically was his performance good for MMA standards? Not really. But was it good for a 42 year old fat blown up Middleweight boxer who has only been training for a few months? I think it was, considering his opposition.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
watching the MMA guy win so easily doesnt mean that MMA fighters are better than boxers
they are 2 totally different sports, its like putting david beckham in a rugby shirt and see how he does at the highest level then coz he does shit saying rugby players are better at rugby than footballers are at football
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
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OK so Ray Mercer took a SURPRISE MMA match vs Tim Sylvia and whipped his ass in under a minute and you think that vindicates Sylvia? :-\
Vindicates??? DUH!!! The point is that Sylvia was trying to do the opposite of what Toney did. He was going to outbox a boxer. The fight was scheduled as a BOXING match. The postponed, moved, rescheduled to make sure it was boxing. Then at the last second it wasn't sanctioned so they fought under MMA rules. But Sylvia still said he was going to stand with Mercer and box with him. How can you vindicate a KO:confused: The point is it was an MMA fighter trying to box. Proves what we've all said. If you get out of your element your gonna lose the fight.
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There are no amateur MMA programs out there #2 The sport cannot offer any extra protection to it's amateurs given the whole nature of the sport (striking AND grappling) that would require headgear and perhaps bigger gloves...just my opinion given the way boxing and TKD are done in the Olympics
There's no arguing with a boxing fan that doesn't check facts before making statements! :rolleyes: I've been to amateur fights. They wear headgear and shin guards. Seen a 12yr old that would kick your ass.....
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As for the money issue, the UFC still bases it's marketing on ENTIRE CARDS....in boxing they usually market just 1 fight, I think that's probably easier because the fan expecting a "Solid CARD" can be disappointed if they see only 2 solid fights, however the fan expecting to see "1 Solid FIGHT" would be very pleased if they got to see 2 solid fights.
This is exactly why people are disgusted with boxing. The 1 fight often turns into a dud. Feint fests like Tarver RJJ 3, early ko's Spinks Tyson, complete mismatches.
You should follow this model as an investment strategy Lyle.... put all your money in one stock. See how that works:11fb8:
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
The boxer gets what they get because the market dictate what they get. It's call an open market system. You know we have that little thing called capitalism in the west. A top boxer like a Manny or Floyd are getting their market's worth.
I'll say this MMA is the equivalent of the NFL (popular mainly in 1 country but no one cares outside of AMerica), while boxing just like soccer has a larger and more worldwide following would be the equivalent of the EPL.
They didn't know who the fuck was Brock Lesnar in China, but they do know who Manny Pacquiao was when I visited there last year and talked to some of the locals.
Sure MMA is growing but mainly in America and probably Canada. As I've said for a martial art organization the Asians in Asia sure don't really give a shit about it or the Latinos in Latin America besides Brazilians.
BTW popular in America does not mean the world. If that was the case the NFL would be the no.1 sports league worldwide, but it's not.
Too much money is the problem with boxing. That's why guys fight once or twice a year, handpick opponents, fluffed records from promoters, waiting to make fights..... It's a sore topic for any real boxing fan, and the casual fans don't give a shit. The money in boxing comes from casual fans that don't follow boxing. That's where the big PPV numbers come from. Most of them couldn't name 10 current boxers.
You are confusing MMA with UFC. UFC is growing rapidly in Canada, US, Europe. MMA is a sport and you are just plain wrong to say it's not popular or growing in other parts of the world. Asian countries have long been into it. Just look at the top competetors in mma. They're from all over the world. You are way off base here..... UFC is American but MMA as a sport is worldwide.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Don't be too hard on Toney. I wrestled in high school and I and anyone else who has done wrestling will tell you that those low shots are VERY hard to stop for guys with wrestling experience, let alone a 42 year old boxer who hasn't trained any wrestling until recently.
Toney was clearly banking on Randy either going in for the clinch (which is what he usually does, as it is his specialty as a Greco-Roman wrestler) or shooting a mid-level takedown (the common shots you see in UFC). Randy threw a HUGE curveball to Toney because not only is that technique something he's NEVER EVER done in MMA, its a technique you VERY RARELY see.
And Toney did impress me on the ground, believe it or not. Go back and watch Art Jimmerson in the first UFC. Royce took the boxer down and Art was PETRIFIED. Toney looked relatively calm, he didn't turtle up or quit when he took some shots, and he was taking the right precautions to escape the side choke. He lasted a lot longer on the ground with a grappler than I thought he would, and surely a lot longer than Couture would standing with him.
Basically was his performance good for MMA standards? Not really. But was it good for a 42 year old fat blown up Middleweight boxer who has only been training for a few months? I think it was, considering his opposition.
Nah. Randy got straight to mount, and James never offered any resistance. Hips flat, didn't turn, didn't roll. Laid flat on his back. Randy isn't a submission artist, so no he did terrible all things considered.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luvfightgame
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
The boxer gets what they get because the market dictate what they get. It's call an open market system. You know we have that little thing called capitalism in the west. A top boxer like a Manny or Floyd are getting their market's worth.
I'll say this MMA is the equivalent of the NFL (popular mainly in 1 country but no one cares outside of AMerica), while boxing just like soccer has a larger and more worldwide following would be the equivalent of the EPL.
They didn't know who the fuck was Brock Lesnar in China, but they do know who Manny Pacquiao was when I visited there last year and talked to some of the locals.
Sure MMA is growing but mainly in America and probably Canada. As I've said for a martial art organization the Asians in Asia sure don't really give a shit about it or the Latinos in Latin America besides Brazilians.
BTW popular in America does not mean the world. If that was the case the NFL would be the no.1 sports league worldwide, but it's not.
Too much money is the problem with boxing. That's why guys fight once or twice a year, handpick opponents, fluffed records from promoters, waiting to make fights..... It's a sore topic for any real boxing fan, and the casual fans don't give a shit. The money in boxing comes from casual fans that don't follow boxing. That's where the big PPV numbers come from. Most of them couldn't name 10 current boxers.
You are confusing MMA with UFC. UFC is growing rapidly in Canada, US, Europe. MMA is a sport and you are just plain wrong to say it's not popular or growing in other parts of the world. Asian countries have long been into it. Just look at the top competetors in mma. They're from all over the world. You are way off base here..... UFC is American but MMA as a sport is worldwide.
Sure it's growing but to what extent? MMA fans have said that's it's the no.1 combat sport in the world and has surpassed boxing because of what the US and Canada? And that it's going to be on par with soccer soon? Based on what?
I've actually been to a few countries and MMA is not the no. 1 sport or combat sport in a few of those countries. Again being popular in AMerica and Canada does not mean the entire world or is growing so rapidly. That's like saying the NFL is more popular than soccer worldwide and is growing rapidly because it does well in America and has a Canadian Football league and is semi popular in Canada. It's an erroneous assumption. Like the Japan and MMA for example.
I'll go with my experience of actually having traveled outside of the US and traveling to some of these countries especially the pacific rim area instead of believing in Dana White and it's UFC/MMA fans.
We'll agree to disagree.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luvfightgame
Quote:
OK so Ray Mercer took a SURPRISE MMA match vs Tim Sylvia and whipped his ass in under a minute and you think that vindicates Sylvia? :-\
Vindicates??? DUH!!! The point is that Sylvia was trying to do the opposite of what Toney did. He was going to outbox a boxer. The fight was scheduled as a BOXING match. The postponed, moved, rescheduled to make sure it was boxing. Then at the last second it wasn't sanctioned so they fought under MMA rules.
But Sylvia still said he was going to stand with Mercer and box with him. How can you vindicate a KO:confused:
The point is it was an MMA fighter trying to box. Proves what we've all said. If you get out of your element your gonna lose the fight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUx9OE7DZAo
OK, if Tim was going to "stand and box" then #1 Why is the first strike from Sylvia a kick? #2 Why was he not warned or penalized for doing something that is against the rules in boxing? #3 Why were they in an MMA cage #4 Why were they wearing 4 oz gloves and no shoes?
BECAUSE IT WAS AN MMA MATCH
As for your little tirade on why "Boxing selling 1 match at a time is a bad thing for the sport" what about when we get to see Pacquiao on the undercard of Lewis-Tyson? What about when we see Miguel Cotto-Ricardo Torres on the same card as Wladimir Klitschko-Sam Peter I? My answer to you is, just because you heavily market 1 fight doesn't mean there won't be quality matches on the undercard and if there aren't then it's not like the promoter did the fans a disservice by promising more and delivering less.
If you like MMA watch it, love it, appreciate it...I'm not telling you to do anything different, just keep your MMA bullshit on the tiny little never used MMA section of the forum. I don't care about it, I don't like it, but once in a blue moon I will comment on something about it, and I'll do it in the appropriate forum.
OK so MMA has an amateur system...I didn't know about it, but I still HIGHLY doubt it gets into the Olympics.
As for the boxing vs mma #1 In the ring it's a ridiculous argument...in MMA where you can pretty much do anything of course the MMA fighter using all the weapons he has is at a major advantage than the boxer who is using 1 specific martial art. #2 As for the money, it's still ridiculous....what were Floyd and Manny going to make? #3 As for "MMA gives us every fight we want to see".....what happened with Lesnar vs Fedor? So let's not act like MMA is just picture perfect and I can tell you that you can expect even more of those matches to not get made because the UFC will have competition and the fighters have contracts with COMPANIES and not with independent promoters and let's say Strikeforce pulls an unbelieveable heavyweight out of the blue and all of a sudden he's the new cash cow of MMA.....what does UFC do then? They couldn't sign Fedor, they couldn't sign Overeem.....I mean do you want the best to fight the best or what?
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
I think we can get from this fight that 9/10 if you put a well rounded smart MMA fighter against a boxer in a fight the MMA fighter is going to win they have to much in there arsenal especially if there smart they can just take the boxer down like we saw with Couture vs Toney!
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mattboxingfan
I think we can get from this fight that 9/10 if you put a well rounded smart MMA fighter against a boxer in a fight the MMA fighter is going to win they have to much in there arsenal especially if there smart they can just take the boxer down like we saw with Couture vs Toney!
It's a simple matter of rules...boxers fight within more rules and MMA fighters fight with less restrictions. It's because boxing is a SPECIFIC martial art and MMA is supposedly all of them mixed together.
There's nothing wrong with either sport, but don't pit them against each other because #1 There is no common ground #2 They are two different sports.
I personally do not like MMA, but I can tolerate it as a sport....the fans on the other hand :rolleyes: . I can watch MMA and appreciate it for what it is, but I don't consider myself a fan of it.
Re: James Toney v Randy Couture
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
luvfightgame
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
The boxer gets what they get because the market dictate what they get. It's call an open market system. You know we have that little thing called capitalism in the west. A top boxer like a Manny or Floyd are getting their market's worth.
I'll say this MMA is the equivalent of the NFL (popular mainly in 1 country but no one cares outside of AMerica), while boxing just like soccer has a larger and more worldwide following would be the equivalent of the EPL.
They didn't know who the fuck was Brock Lesnar in China, but they do know who Manny Pacquiao was when I visited there last year and talked to some of the locals.
Sure MMA is growing but mainly in America and probably Canada. As I've said for a martial art organization the Asians in Asia sure don't really give a shit about it or the Latinos in Latin America besides Brazilians.
BTW popular in America does not mean the world. If that was the case the NFL would be the no.1 sports league worldwide, but it's not.
Too much money is the problem with boxing. That's why guys fight once or twice a year, handpick opponents, fluffed records from promoters, waiting to make fights..... It's a sore topic for any real boxing fan, and the casual fans don't give a shit. The money in boxing comes from casual fans that don't follow boxing. That's where the big PPV numbers come from. Most of them couldn't name 10 current boxers.
You are confusing MMA with UFC. UFC is growing rapidly in Canada, US, Europe. MMA is a sport and you are just plain wrong to say it's not popular or growing in other parts of the world. Asian countries have long been into it. Just look at the top competetors in mma. They're from all over the world. You are way off base here..... UFC is American but MMA as a sport is worldwide.
Sure it's growing but to what extent? MMA fans have said that's it's the no.1 combat sport in the world and has surpassed boxing because of what the US and Canada? And that it's going to be on par with soccer soon? Based on what?
I've actually been to a few countries and MMA is not the no. 1 sport or combat sport in a few of those countries. Again being popular in AMerica and Canada does not mean the entire world or is growing so rapidly. That's like saying the NFL is more popular than soccer worldwide and is growing rapidly because it does well in America and has a Canadian Football league and is semi popular in Canada. It's an erroneous assumption. Like the Japan and MMA for example.
I'll go with my experience of actually having traveled outside of the US and traveling to some of these countries especially the pacific rim area instead of believing in Dana White and it's UFC/MMA fans.
We'll agree to disagree.
Sorry but your posts are ridiculous. What are you, a travelling pollster? Why are you travelling the world conducting surveys and who are you asking? Obviously MMA is growing rapidly in Asia and South America, and everywhere else as evidenced by the fact that fighters are now entering the Octagon from countries in Europe, Asia, South America, North America, Australia etc.
It's growing rapidly. Sure a fight in the UFC between two Americans isn't going to be as big in Japan as a boxing fight between the top two Japanese boxers but that isn't really a fair comparison.
The reason MMA is growing so fast is because it is a more complete sport than boxing, it's real fighting, and more practically useful in real life. The baddest MMA star vs the baddest boxer in a real fight is at least 8 times out of 10 going to be won by the MMA star. That's appealing for the public, and also for young kids growing up who want to learn how to fight.
