Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
Actually my point being that there was a major fuss about Pacquiao fights being at a catchweight while there weren't for others. And there were major fusses all over the place before Pacquiao even fought those guys and the outcome decided, there are threads that went for pages here on that and other boxing boards.
But guess what? They were barely a moan or whine when Williams-Martinez 2 or Pavlik-Taylor, Pavlik-Hopkins happened before or after the outcome.
Now that's what you call inconsistency. Like take a guy like Adamgb that went on and on and on about Cotto-Pacquiao before the fight took place, but not a peep out of the guy when other catchweight fights like say Marquez-Mayweather or Williams-Martinez. You can't single a guy out and then remain silent or give those guys passes.
Or even some people here say that catchweights for certain fighters are okay like Oscar-Hopkins but not okay for others like Pac-Cotto. Be consistent.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
Actually my point being that there was a major fuss about Pacquiao fights being at a catchweight while there weren't for others. And there were major fusses all over the place before Pacquiao even fought those guys and the outcome decided, there are threads that went for pages here on that and other boxing boards.
But guess what? They were barely a moan or whine when Williams-Martinez 2 or Pavlik-Taylor, Pavlik-Hopkins happened before or after the outcome.
Now that's what you call inconsistency. Like take a guy like Adamgb that went on and on and on about Cotto-Pacquiao before the fight took place, but not a peep out of the guy when other catchweight fights like say Marquez-Mayweather or Williams-Martinez. You can't single a guy out and then remain silent or give those guys passes.
Or even some people here say that catchweights for certain fighters are okay like Oscar-Hopkins but not okay for others like Pac-Cotto. Be consistent.
The only reason why people complain about catchweight is to discredit pac any possible way. Its the same people who always root against him. They have gone so low they even believe a crackheads accusation about Pac using PEDs. People will think or believe anything to discredit somebody they've never liked.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
The result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If Cotto had beat Pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what Williams did with Martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.
In my opinion, the only fight Pacquiao had where I thought they maybe did that for that reason was the Cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought Hatton at Hatton's natural weight - 140, Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147. Pac met ODLH at a middle point, and don't forget, ODLH was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
The result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If Cotto had beat Pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what Williams did with Martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.
In my opinion, the only fight Pacquiao had where I thought they maybe did that for that reason was the Cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought Hatton at Hatton's natural weight - 140, Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147. Pac met ODLH at a middle point, and don't forget, ODLH was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.
Exactly. Pac basically only made one fighter (Cotto) lose weight for him. Which was only 2 pounds.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
The result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If Cotto had beat Pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what Williams did with Martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.
In my opinion, the only fight Pacquiao had where I thought they maybe did that for that reason was the Cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought Hatton at Hatton's natural weight - 140, Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147. Pac met ODLH at a middle point, and don't forget, ODLH was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.
Of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.
I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the FACTS speak for themselves.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
The result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If Cotto had beat Pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what Williams did with Martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.
In my opinion, the only fight Pacquiao had where I thought they maybe did that for that reason was the Cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought Hatton at Hatton's natural weight - 140, Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147. Pac met ODLH at a middle point, and don't forget, ODLH was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.
Of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.
I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the FACTS speak for themselves.
Sorry but your posts are ridiculous. So in your OWN words, it's not usually a big deal for a fighter to come down a couple of pounds and still beat up the little guy, it's what you would expect.
But because Pacquiao beats them, then obviously this proves the exception where the loss of a pound was pivotal and turned the fight result on its head? :confused:
Not sure if you noticed but Manny has also fought Hatton, Clottey and David Diaz all in their chosen weight classes since moving up, and beat the snot out of every single one of them every bit as convincingly as the other guys.
The only fighter you could make a case for being weight drained was Oscar, and that WASN'T a catchweight fight.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
The result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If Cotto had beat Pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what Williams did with Martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.
In my opinion, the only fight Pacquiao had where I thought they maybe did that for that reason was the Cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought Hatton at Hatton's natural weight - 140, Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147. Pac met ODLH at a middle point, and don't forget, ODLH was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.
Of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.
I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the FACTS speak for themselves.
What facts are we talking about here. Only thing you've been saying is highly subjective. That both cotto and margarito were weight drained/zombies etc. Both those guys weren't complaining about weight issues and they obviously weren't zombies.
As for ODLH, the guy had it coming. Now that's zombie. But lo and behold, you'd still blame it on pac "forcing" him to go down to 147.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Guys. Easy on Hornfinger. He's about to cry. ;D
There's no point of arguing with him. The dude is a hater.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Guys. Easy on Hornfinger. He's about to cry. ;D
There's no point of arguing with him. The dude is a hater.
Hornfigher is either Milmacas fag lover or his alt.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
Quote:
Originally Posted by
:::PSL:::
Guys. Easy on Hornfinger. He's about to cry. ;D
There's no point of arguing with him. The dude is a hater.
Hornfigher is either Milmacas fag lover or his alt.
It's ridiculous though. Take Manny's win over Oscar. He was a superfeatherweight who jumped 3 divisions, and Oscar came back down to his old welterweight limit.
That's analagous to Floyd Mayweather moving up to super middleweight to meet Jean Pascal moving back down from 175 and then beating the snot out of him until the referee stopped the fight.
True, the Floyd haters wouldn't be impressed either, of course he would win under such unfavourable circumnstances for Pascal they would say. Pascal had to move down a whole weight class, it destroyed his body.
But for normal people not blinded by their own agendas it would be a might impressive feat, and a big risk to step up and take that challenge on.
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
The result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If Cotto had beat Pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what Williams did with Martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.
In my opinion, the only fight Pacquiao had where I thought they maybe did that for that reason was the Cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought Hatton at Hatton's natural weight - 140, Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147. Pac met ODLH at a middle point, and don't forget, ODLH was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.
Of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.
I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the FACTS speak for themselves.
What you are saying is that if Williams had beat Martinez, you would given him a ton of crap like you are doing now, but because he lost, you're giving him a free pass?
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
I liked the quote used by YB the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-Hopkins at 156?
Chavez-Whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-Lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and Pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-Norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-Marinez at 158? hardly a moan.
But with Pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
ANd if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
BTW no one forced Oscar to fight Manny, it was Oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the A side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with Manny.
In those fights listed how many of the guys coming DOWN to the weight lost?
I think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them I don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights I saw. You presumably disagree?
My point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, I think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. that can't be said for the Pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
You think the out come of Hagler vs Leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
The result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If Cotto had beat Pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what Williams did with Martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.
In my opinion, the only fight Pacquiao had where I thought they maybe did that for that reason was the Cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought Hatton at Hatton's natural weight - 140, Mayweather made Hatton come up to 147. Pac met ODLH at a middle point, and don't forget, ODLH was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.
Of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.
I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the FACTS speak for themselves.
Sorry but your posts are ridiculous. So in your OWN words, it's not usually a big deal for a fighter to come down a couple of pounds and still beat up the little guy, it's what you would expect.
But because Pacquiao beats them, then obviously this proves the exception where the loss of a pound was pivotal and turned the fight result on its head? :confused:
Not sure if you noticed but Manny has also fought Hatton, Clottey and David Diaz all in their chosen weight classes since moving up, and beat the snot out of every single one of them every bit as convincingly as the other guys.
The only fighter you could make a case for being weight drained was Oscar, and that WASN'T a catchweight fight.
My posts are rediculous?
Whats rediculous is a so called boxing fan 1st off all has no clue about the strains making weight puts on the body and 2nd can't see when a fighter enters the ring looking like a shadow of a man.
IT ALL COMES BACK TO THE SAME THING.
IF PACQUIAO WAS REALLY CONFIDENT ABOUT BEATING THESE PEOPLE WHY IS HE INSISTING ON BRINGING THEM DOWN UNDER THEIR COMFORTABLE WEIGHT?
ANSWER THAT MOTHER FUCKING QUESTION.
THIS IS ONLY HEIGHTENED BY PACS OWN DETERMINATION TO FIGHT MARQUEZ AT A HIGHER WEIGHT. IF DROPPING WEIGHT DOESN'T TAKE ANYTHING OUT OF A FIGHTER WHY DOESN'T BACK FIGHT JMM AT 135 OR 140?
ANSWER THAT FUCKING QUESTION.
But all that is rediculous right?
Re: De La Hoya: Pacquiao makes fighters lose on the scales 1st
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Originally Posted by
rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
hornfinger
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Originally Posted by
rantcatrat
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Originally Posted by
hornfinger
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Originally Posted by
bilbo
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Originally Posted by
hornfinger
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Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
i liked the quote used by yb the other day. You know you've made it when you got haters.
Almost no one said anything about the other catchweights that were fought, besides 1 or 2 at the most.
Oscar-hopkins at 156?
Chavez-whitaker at 145? Hardly a moan.
Leonard-lalonde at 168? Hardly a moan.
Hopkins-wright and pavlik at 170? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-pavlik at 166? Hardly a moan.
Taylor-norris at 150? Hardly a moan.
Williams-marinez at 158? Hardly a moan.
But with pacquiao it's a problem and considered to be breaking the rules of boxing.
And if the guys think it's unfair to come down in weight. Then don't sign the contract. No one forced them to. And if they did complain, then take responsibility for accepting the terms.
Btw no one forced oscar to fight manny, it was oscar that wanted to fight a guy that just jumped 3 divisions within a year and was only taking 32% of the fight purse and ppv money. Oscar was never forced to do anything in his boxing career. He was always the a side of the draw and had the upper hand in negotiations. And that includes his fight with manny.
in those fights listed how many of the guys coming down to the weight lost?
i think in all of those fights the favourite won. Having watched many of them i don't see that weight drain was a factor in any of the fights i saw. You presumably disagree?
my point was actually going to be the guy coming down in weight won the majority of those fights, i think hopkins won all of his on that list and that's why no fuss was made. That can't be said for the pacquiao fights. In all of those the guy coming down looked weak and slow and got a one sided beating and that's why a fuss was kicked up
you think the out come of hagler vs leonard would have been the same if they had had the weight stipulations?
the result isn't what matters because that's always in 20/20 hindsite. If cotto had beat pacquiao, he would have been still forced to make a lower weight, the nefarious reason behind the weight dropping was still there. Right? You are upset because of the reason behind having the catchweight, to have someone lose weight so that the fighter is less effective, and his opponent having an unfair advantage. Right? If that is the case, what williams did with martinez is just as bad because it was for that exact same reason.
In my opinion, the only fight pacquiao had where i thought they maybe did that for that reason was the cotto fight. Margarito was a career welterweight, 150 actually is probably his ideal weight. Pacquiao fought hatton at hatton's natural weight - 140, mayweather made hatton come up to 147. Pac met odlh at a middle point, and don't forget, odlh was heavily favored going into that fight. Clottey was at 147.
of course it matters who wins. That's the whole point of boxing. No ones going to make a fuss when a big guy comes down a couple of pounds and beats a little guy. Because it's expected. However when a big guy has to come down in weight and then looks and fights like a damn zombie, of course people are going to say something.
I don't need to discredit pacquiao because the facts speak for themselves.
what you are saying is that if williams had beat martinez, you would given him a ton of crap like you are doing now, but because he lost, you're giving him a free pass?
answer this question....
Did martinez look like a zombie shadow of a man in the ring?
