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Any similar referendums held around the world almost always require a 2/3rds majority for the 'yes' to pass.
It is very democratic and unusual to only require a simple majority.
If this was set up for Yes to fail it would have just been a 2/3rd majority requirement like almost all precedents.
So, Dundee and Glasgow voted yes.
Right, let's cordon them off. Don't deny them. Give them independence.
Perimeter fence all round.
Scottish people have over £1000 more spent on them per person per year and yet we are supposed to see them as the hard done by? Scottish and Welsh Mps get to dictate how money is spent on the English and then on themselves in their own Parliament but the English do not. Now apparently Manchester want independence and parliament there. The arrogance of it.
Miles you have seen democracy in action and are acting like a spoilt child because your cherry picking version of reality is so intolerant and dictatorial that you will not even contemplate the merits of a different point of view.
When people are given a fair choice without threats, bribery and a constant Goebbels style media assault then people cannot complain so much. However, only one paper gave the Scots a pro voice, the BBC was biased, the politicians were abusive and threatening and what swung it was apparently a head bobbing Brown with a bunch of words written on the back of a packet of pork scratchings or was it a beermat? I couldn't tell with all of his slick moves running to and fro and was admittedly distracted by his unseemly satanic possession. Now, if you think that is a fair approach then good for you, but the people making these last minute promises are ALL known liars on serious issues.
I worry and with good reason. William Hague is apparently now in charge of leading these apparent changes. Does that fill you with confidence? Every bad event is an opportunity for these people and does anyone really think that the Lib/Lab/Con tag team is going to ever do anything positive for ordinary people? They are not going to let this opportunity go to waste. It is now going to be the common purpose devolution option which was always the plan. Occupation by stealth.
I said no was going to win too, but thought it was going to be 52/48 at best. I think it was obvious that the Yes side needed at least a six point lead going into the vote, but I did not think the polls were that far out!Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
So Nostradamus whats your call for the General Election?! ;)
Yep I just figured that undecideds would definitely cause a few point swing to the No side. But was countering that by figuring that Yes was a more mobilising vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidI said no was going to win too, but thought it was going to be 52/48 at best. I think it was obvious that the Yes side needed at least a six point lead going into the vote, but I did not think the polls were that far out!Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
So Nostradamus whats your call for the General Election?! ;)
Just to add to my earlier point about this being unusual in that for the motion to carry it only need 50.1% of the vote, it was also a very fair question for the Yes side.
If the question had been 'Should Scotland remain part of the UK?' then the margin of victory would have been greater.
Miles this is a fair result, decided by the people. They have engaged in this in a way not seen before and the debate has largely been intelligent and rational. The No side did seem to throw things in at the end, yet the Yes side did seem to be deploying 'rent-a-mobs' for the last couple of weeks and unfairly labeling No voters as un-Scottish.
Personally I didn't have a preference either way. Not because I'm not interested but because I felt that whatever the people of Scotland decided would be the right result. That is democracy.
As for General Election - I've no idea! Other than no party will get an outright majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by BritkidI said no was going to win too, but thought it was going to be 52/48 at best. I think it was obvious that the Yes side needed at least a six point lead going into the vote, but I did not think the polls were that far out!Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
So Nostradamus whats your call for the General Election?! ;)
Why didn't they just save the hassle and implement the requirement for a 2/3rds majority that is the norm for such votes around the world?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
That would have been easier wouldn't it?
Cameron is a cunt for sure, but he isn't a master puppeteer.
I see nothing here other than a very fair referendum with a fair result.
The Scottish people are not likely to be duped by any of Cameron's crap - this was above party politics. Cameron will be gone next year.
Politicians today are a different breed, they start there life on the political road in University, so
in my eyes theses people, really are professional Politicians.
They have lost touch with the working classes, and Frankly no fuck all about Joe public or don't
really care, take Cameron he's a millionaire,! a privileged up bring , privately educated, this
man loves being Prime Minister for the power not the money he has plenty.
This condescending bunch in Westminster, are far removed from Beanz in Cornwall , Adam in the
northeast, and me in Wrexham, and others round the UK.
The people in Scotland reminded this bunch, people are dissatisfied with them not the Union, and here is fact in Spain a I talking to this Spanish guy he told me he was a Basque,! and proud of
it but he told me when we go to WAR WE ALL GO TO WAR,! so you can have Nationalism but
when your in the shit we are in it altogether very true.!!!!!!!!!;)
I cannot speak for the world, but in the UK we have referendums based on a majority and I like it that way. It would have been unacceptable to require 2/3rd's and I assume most people would regard that as draconian and unfair too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanWhy didn't they just save the hassle and implement the requirement for a 2/3rds majority that is the norm for such votes around the world?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
That would have been easier wouldn't it?
Cameron is a cunt for sure, but he isn't a master puppeteer.
I see nothing here other than a very fair referendum with a fair result.
The Scottish people are not likely to be duped by any of Cameron's crap - this was above party politics. Cameron will be gone next year.
Cameron is not a master puppeteer and that is why the entire parliamentary system is a hoax. Cameron may well be gone next year, but it will be next years model.
I cannot dispute the result other than being disappointed. I don't think it was a fair lead up and Brown looked like he was on ecstasy, but at least the voting process appears to have been well handled. I can understand old people having the fear too, but I want a system that gives something to the young other than draining them dry. It ain't happening with this system.
I agree it would be draconian, but with lots of precedent.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI cannot speak for the world, but in the UK we have referendums based on a majority and I like it that way. It would have been unacceptable to require 2/3rd's and I assume most people would regard that as draconian and unfair too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanWhy didn't they just save the hassle and implement the requirement for a 2/3rds majority that is the norm for such votes around the world?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
That would have been easier wouldn't it?
Cameron is a cunt for sure, but he isn't a master puppeteer.
I see nothing here other than a very fair referendum with a fair result.
The Scottish people are not likely to be duped by any of Cameron's crap - this was above party politics. Cameron will be gone next year.
Cameron is not a master puppeteer and that is why the entire parliamentary system is a hoax. Cameron may well be gone next year, but it will be next years model.
I cannot dispute the result other than being disappointed. I don't think it was a fair lead up and Brown looked like he was on ecstasy, but at least the voting process appears to have been well handled. I can understand old people having the fear too, but I want a system that gives something to the young other than draining them dry. It ain't happening with this system.
Anyway, I certainly don't wish to see the present system conserved.
Fundamental reform is needed, not just in Britain but around the world.
My fundamental belief that underpins all my political thoughts is to create a fairer distribution of wealth, resource and liberty.
The whats, whys and hows are something that I am pragmatic about.
On this, I honestly was not sure what is best for the people of Scotland and was happy for them to decide based on the fact they have been thoroughly engaged with the process for 2 years and became a very well informed electorate.
In Scotland there was a very high turnout of voters 85%, and democracy won the day and that'sQuote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanI agree it would be draconian, but with lots of precedent.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI cannot speak for the world, but in the UK we have referendums based on a majority and I like it that way. It would have been unacceptable to require 2/3rd's and I assume most people would regard that as draconian and unfair too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanmanWhy didn't they just save the hassle and implement the requirement for a 2/3rds majority that is the norm for such votes around the world?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
That would have been easier wouldn't it?
Cameron is a cunt for sure, but he isn't a master puppeteer.
I see nothing here other than a very fair referendum with a fair result.
The Scottish people are not likely to be duped by any of Cameron's crap - this was above party politics. Cameron will be gone next year.
Cameron is not a master puppeteer and that is why the entire parliamentary system is a hoax. Cameron may well be gone next year, but it will be next years model.
I cannot dispute the result other than being disappointed. I don't think it was a fair lead up and Brown looked like he was on ecstasy, but at least the voting process appears to have been well handled. I can understand old people having the fear too, but I want a system that gives something to the young other than draining them dry. It ain't happening with this system.
Anyway, I certainly don't wish to see the present system conserved.
Fundamental reform is needed, not just in Britain but around the world.
My fundamental belief that underpins all my political thoughts is to create a fairer distribution of wealth, resource and liberty.
The whats, whys and hows are something that I am pragmatic about.
On this, I honestly was not sure what is best for the people of Scotland and was happy for them to decide based on the fact they have been thoroughly engaged with the process for 2 years and became a very well informed electorate.
how it should be,! but remember the Capital sucks the life blood out of the Country by attracting
talented people for all over the UK. What you have is one place generating wealth and prosperity
in one region, this is not good for other part of the UK, because you only have the attraction of London as the major power house.
You will never have a fair distribution of wealth, other City's round the UK need to be power houses
as well not just London from North to South and East and West, share wealth evenly around the
Country.
Westminster have just found out adrenaline is not brown and does not run down your leg,! there
arrogance and shear ignorance nearly cost them the Union, if you look at the vote per population
the NO vote won by a little under 4 hundred thousand votes.
Now the bull shit starts, more false promises there is a Election next year so , watch Cameron trying to sell his snake oil to the voters.
Interesting Ryanman, you are thinking like a Constitionalist. Which I say as a complimentQuote:
Originally Posted by ryanman
Now can the English vote to see if we want to keep scotland and Wales and Northern island ?
Of course you can, there is a general election coming up and you can vote for those who wish to end the UK. And if you cannot wait that long, perhaps join a protest movement. There are lots of organizations who wish to see the end of the Union. Maybe joining IS is a way to go forward for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al