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i'm very disappointed with pascal's performance. bernard won the fight without question... but pascal should take the rematch because he's a much better fighter than he showed tonight. he can only do better the second time around and bernard will probably do equally well or worse. if pascal come out focused and with a solid plan then i think he should be able to stop hopkins.
Again, we are in complete agreement. I wonder if I've suffered a mild stroke or something...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
I don't think the decision was terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHOnly one of the judges was from Canada. I don;t think Canada is worse than any other nation for scoring, it's just the only time there is a big fight in Montreal it's involving a fighter from Montreal. It's just typical hometown bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by NuthaPug
I think emotionally we all wanted Hopkins to pull it off and the judges agreed he very nearly did.
I'd like to see the scorecards though.
I hope they fight again, without the knockdowns that was just a dominantly one sided win
I'd love to see the cards too.
Some US writers got (or had) him as 2010 fighter of the year front runner.Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheButcherQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
is he really rated highly outside of canada?
and mike ortega >>> steve smoger
Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Some US writers got (or had) him as 2010 fighter of the year front runner.Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheButcherQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
is he really rated highly outside of canada?
and mike ortega >>> steve smoger
If he had beaten Hopkins I would have had him as the fighter of the year; however, after this it's Montiel for me.
Yeah, agreed. This was fair enough in terms of the mechanics of the matter. I guess. That first knockdown did look back-of-the-headish. Take that point away ...Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHOnly one of the judges was from Canada. I don;t think Canada is worse than any other nation for scoring, it's just the only time there is a big fight in Montreal it's involving a fighter from Montreal. It's just typical hometown bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by NuthaPug
Really glad for Hopkins that he performed so well, and glad to have been able to see it. (Thanks again arim!). Would have been nice to see a victory. One point difference by one of the judges. Durn!
I thought Hopkins was a clear winner despite the knockdowns, he dominated most of the fight and I felt he swept the last 6. It'd be interesting to see a rematch and I think its deserved, but I doubt Hopkins goes back to Canada for it
Yeah Pascal was held in very high regard imo. Diaconu was until he ran into Pascal considered the biggest threat at 175, and Dawson was tipped to be a future p4p star. Floyd Mayweather described Dawson as the most gifted fighter in the sport after himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Some US writers got (or had) him as 2010 fighter of the year front runner.Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheButcherQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
is he really rated highly outside of canada?
and mike ortega >>> steve smoger
Pascal is a very good fighter. I just think Hopkins is an all time great, no question.
What a depressing result. :(
Hopkins a close but clear winner in my eyes... I feel he won every round from 4 - 11 with 12 even. Somehow I knew it would be a draw before they even read it out though.
What a performance by B-Hop though, a legend. You can see his mind turning as the fight goes on, and he just systematically breaks down his opponent. The body shots really took a lot out of of Pascal... He was eating right hands towards the end.
My scores:
PASCAL------- 10 10 10 09 09 09 09 09 09 09 09 10 - 112
HOPKINS------ 08 09 08 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 - 115
Yes it was a robbery, it wasn't wide mathematically but that doesn't mean it wasn't a robbery. Because the rounds were very easy to score, there were no swing rounds. B-hop won 8 rounds, Jean Pascal won 4 rounds with 2 knockdown's, one of them being disputed according to some on here.
Hopkins won the fight itself, and Pascal knew it, you could see it from his face. Incredible recovery from the early rounds. I expected the judges to give a home decision what with the knockdowns.
A draw seems fair. Really enjoyed it, Hopkins was fantastic, at 45 to recover and dominate the majority of the fight so much, after 3 I thought he was doomed.
There were a couple of close rounds, but Hopkins deserved the win. I wouldn't call it a robbery though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Many of you have to realize, that Hopkins dug a big hole early.
Look at this this way. If you gave Pascal the first three rounds like I did and the 12th along with taking the knockdowns in consideration, all Pascal needed was 1 round between rounds 4 to 11 to make it a draw.
I actually scored it 113-113
I have Martinez as this years' foty.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Some US writers got (or had) him as 2010 fighter of the year front runner.Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheButcherQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
is he really rated highly outside of canada?
and mike ortega >>> steve smoger
If he had beaten Hopkins I would have had him as the fighter of the year; however, after this it's Montiel for me.
I don't get why you picked him over Lucian Bute.
Pascal is very rugged. He's skills is crap. I've pointed that before.
Bute would knock his head off after round 6.
Honestly had BHop winning this fight clearly but I can't call the decision a GROSS robbery. I personally think that Hops bodywork is what won this fight for him(in my opinion). Great fight though
Really bro ? because i didn't see any close rounds after the 4th round. Jean Pascal went on the backfoot doing nothing for 7 rounds. B-Hop was coming forward landing crisp shots to the body and head, even making Jean Pascal's legs buckle a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThere were a couple of close rounds, but Hopkins deserved the win. I wouldn't call it a robbery though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
The only round which was closish was the 12th round, but still Jean Pascal didn't win that round. And it was still a clear B-Hop round, although Jean Pascal made it more competitive than the other 7 rounds he still lost the round.
Who did I pick over Bute? Pascal? I've always said that I think Bute would stop him, but Pascal has had an amazing year.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::I have Martinez as this years' foty.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Some US writers got (or had) him as 2010 fighter of the year front runner.Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheButcherQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
is he really rated highly outside of canada?
and mike ortega >>> steve smoger
If he had beaten Hopkins I would have had him as the fighter of the year; however, after this it's Montiel for me.
I don't get why you picked him over Lucian Bute.
Pascal is very rugged. He's skills is crap. I've pointed that before.
Bute would knock his head off after round 6.
It was a great performance from Hopkins, but Pascal was such a let down. He had no output from about the 5th onwards. It was as though all that dancing and occasional combination punching had him spent with most of the fight still to go. He had Hopkins in a position noone else has ever had him and this was an old Hopkins with a seemingly fragile ability to take flush shots and a vulnerability in defence. All Pascal had to do was outwork the old man for a few of those rounds, but no output whatsover.
Anyway, full credit to Hopkins. He was in a hole after 4 and was looking in serious trouble, but he kept his cool didn't rough it up too much and worked the rounds by outworking his oppponent. Hopkins looked like the real Jesus as compared with the current son of god tonight. No need for blatant cheating tonight. Props to Hopkins for that, I was expecting another stinkfest, but it wasn't really the case at all.
Absolutely. I thought he was going to drop Pascal with a body shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by chinchekked
I didn't give Pascal a round after the 3rd, but there were a couple of ccasions where I felt that I could understand a judge scoring the round for Pascal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBReally bro ? because i didn't see any close rounds after the 4th round. Jean Pascal went on the backfoot doing nothing for 7 rounds. B-Hop was coming forward landing crisp shots to the body and head, even making Jean Pascal's legs buckle a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThere were a couple of close rounds, but Hopkins deserved the win. I wouldn't call it a robbery though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
The only round which was closish was the 12th round, but still Jean Pascal didn't win that round. And it was still a clear B-Hop round, although Jean Pascal made it more competitive than the other 7 rounds he still lost the round.
B-Hop was hurt worse vs Segundo Mercado, and amazingly he was dropped twice in that fight aswell, and managed to earn a draw. It was closer than the Jean Pascal fight, but very similar scoring wise strangely.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I know this is slightly off topic but after remembering that fight again, i thought i'd pull out my old scorecard i done for that fight ages ago.
1 Hopkins 10-9
2 Hopkins 10-9
3 Hopkins 10-9
4 Mercado 10-9
5 Mercado 10-8
6 Hopkins 10-9
7 Mercado 10-8
8 Mercado 10-9
9 Even 10-10
10 Hopkins 10-9
11 Hopkins 10-9
12 Hopkins 10-9
114-113 Bernard Hopkins.
Robbery? Not in my point of view.
Like many said already, if you give the 5 point to pascal in the first 3 and put the 12th as draw, pascal doesn't need much to get that result.
The way I saw the fight, pascal did nothing the a few round after the 3rd, but Hopkins did slow down in the 7 or the 8 (not sure which one, I'll have to check the fight again). Check the 7th-8th-9th again, none of the two boxer clearly won those rounds.
I would love a rematch, but Hopkins is getting old...And Pascal already have to give a rematch to Dawson (it was in the contract).
Good call, forgot all about that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBB-Hop was hurt worse vs Segundo Mercado, and amazingly he was dropped twice in that fight aswell, and managed to earn a draw. It was closer than the Jean Pascal fight, but very similar scoring wise strangely.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
The biggest travesty in all of this is the Diamond belt is still vacant.
Just came back with some friends to see the fight on giant screen,
Quite a turn of event, after the 3rd round I was about to think that Hopkins was officially done and might be knocked out for the very first time but the fight got so tight in the end, quite an amazing fight when I was expecting a wrestling show. I personally had PAscal by a very slight margin but I had a lot of difficulties to score many of the rounds which I think were very very close. I hope that there will be a rematch if ever PAscal beats Dawson in their rematch (which I am absolutely not sure he can).
Basically the fight was lost due to a behind the head knockdown, same spot when the ref ruled it a "slip" in the 5th or 6th (forgot) no it was a fucking rabbit punch. Ref really blew that knockdown.:rolleyes:
I had nearly the same score card. I had the 12th going to Hopkins though for a 115-111.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oggie
Total bullshit decision.
A draw SUCKS. At least they didn't give it to Pascal though and rule that Bernard "Lost".
Still the ROBBED Bernard of making history in what was perhaps his most courageous performance.
He is a LEGEND.
I thought the first KD was more on the side of the head than the back, but I'll have to watch it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Either way... Pascal deserved at least a couple of point deductions for being French Canadian.
Whats even worse, one of the judges(belgian who scored it a draw) scored the 10th round 10-10 even. The other two gave it to B-Hop.:rolleyes:
I had Hopkins by two, and i also scored a couple of 10-10 rounds which could have easily gone to Hopkins. Can definitely see how some had it Hopkins by 4.
Hopkins was probably taking the first round aswell before the knockdown, which i again don't think was legit.
Not sure how anyone had pascal winning. But a decent fight at least.
Mathematically it's not a robbery, but if one was to count the numbers of rounds won then B-Hop was robbed in that regards. I had it 9-3 in favor of the old man. When you win 9 rounds or more and it's called a draw, then yes it is a robbery.
I haven't seen a robbery as egregious as this since the Chavez-Whittaker fight where I had Whitaker winning 10 out of 12 rounds. Just like that fight and this fight the decision was a farce.
Thomas Hauser pretty much summed it up for me. He said:Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
"A champion shouldn't retain his title when he wins 3 of 12 rounds in a title fight. But that's the gift 2 judges bestowed upon Jean Pascal in Quebec City on Saturday night".
The scores were always going to be close because of the knockdowns, but I thought Hopkins won 8 or 9 rounds and should have gotten the nod. The fact that he won so many of the rounds and didn't get the decision is why people will shout robbery because IMO it was a very clear win and its a bit farcical that he won so many rounds and wasn't given the decision
Woke up even more po'd then lastnight. Generalbulldog totally agree with you on rounds. Effective punching and workrate won this for Hopkins and he got screwed. He sounded put off about sport in interview and I can't blame hit one bit. This isn't a math course, frankly even rounds should be tossed and totally discouraged. Basically saying " I have no fooking clue"
Think long and hard about having three complete strangers determining your future and fate and knowing that there is not a soul they have to answer to. Absolutely zero accountability and judges slink off into ananimity only to be remembered by weary fans, a few pundits and the fighters they sit in judgement of. Who in the he'll judges the judges! Hopkins is a legend. Pascal will go down as a guy who can say he was gifted a draw with him. Merry Christmas "champion" ...and I can't scroll down to find the jerk off smiley, but you get the picture!
The other MASSIVE difference is, Hopkins landed a million more punches on Pascal. No way those two fights even come close to being similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThe difference between Pascal and Hopkins in those two fights is that in both cases Hopkins was landing the cleaner, more effective punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
Hopkins landed 127/468 against Calzaghe.
Hopkins landed 171/445 against Pascal.
Clearly Hopkins had a much higher success rate against Pascal. It's also clear the majority think Hopkins was "robbed" whereas the majority feel Hopkins LOST to Calzaghe ;)
I wasn't saying that the two fights were similar in terms of the way they played out, only that I felt the same way regarding the decisions. In both cases I feel that Hopkins won close, but clear decisions. That's the only way I was comparing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterThe other MASSIVE difference is, Hopkins landed a million more punches on Pascal. No way those two fights even come close to being similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by CFHThe difference between Pascal and Hopkins in those two fights is that in both cases Hopkins was landing the cleaner, more effective punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by armin
Hopkins landed 127/468 against Calzaghe.
Hopkins landed 171/445 against Pascal.
Clearly Hopkins had a much higher success rate against Pascal. It's also clear the majority think Hopkins was "robbed" whereas the majority feel Hopkins LOST to Calzaghe ;)
That is a bit surprising. Where did you see the cards?Quote:
Originally Posted by No Contest
Here's the card
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18.../scorecard.jpg
That 3rd card. Is that actually a 9 written over an 8 in the 1st round. Changed his mind I suppose :pQuote:
Originally Posted by killersheep