Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by TyBuff
cc CuteMeMick, some very valid points there. 147 is looking to be a very good division to be in for 2007, but the only real NAME at that weight is PBF. At least the only name that wont get a backlash when he is beaten.
cc#284 for you....
Though I agree, Cottos not beaten a fighter of the caliber of Tszyu like Hatton has, but it's only fair to point out that the ONLY fighter out there that he could do that with at THIS point is PBF.
Unless by the end of 2007 someone, either Williams, Cintron, Collazo, Margarito or any of the new comers wipes out the division anc Cotto beats them? And even then someone will come up with some bullshet!!
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by shza
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Originally Posted by CutMeMicK
Steelie & Memphies: The ONLY win/opponent that Hatton has thats bigger then any of Cottos is Tszyu.... But come on Hatton can't ride on that win alone for the rest of his career.... That was over a year ago since then he aint done shet!!! Wether it's management or whatever else yu wanna throw in there, we are talking about fighters here not boxing politics... Whatevers happening between him and his mngrs. thats his shet!!
Cotto on the other hand doesn't have that big name your right on that, but Cottos gradually moving up I mean heres a kid with 27 fights and already hes more then half way there to surpassing Hattons career as far as quality of opponents all he needs is a big/recognizable name. It took Hatton 39 fights to accomplish that, it looks like it will take Cotto a little more then half of that.
Another important thing is there is NO REAL SUPERSTAR and or dominant fighter at Welter right now like Tszyu was at one point, so you gotta also see what lies ahead for Cotto....
Antonio Margarito - The verdict is 50/50, those who think hes underrated and feared OR those who think hes overated and is a nobody. If Cotto beats him it won't mean much to you. Am I right?
PBF - Future is really unknown as he has stated he will fight ODLH then retire. ::** This here IS THE ONLY NAME available at this moment for Cotto to add on his resume that will not only top BUT blow Hattons win over Tszyu out of the water.
Paul Williams - Still to be tested, is a contender at this point. If Cotto beats him it won't mean much to you. Am I right?
Kermit Cintron - Current IBF paper champ, holds a vacant belt has been BEATEN with every sense of the word by Margarito.
If Cotto beats him it won't mean much to you. Am I right?
So you see at this time there really isn't a dominant name in the Welters, theres only PBF but we know where hes headed. The only thing that is apparent to me is that Cotto will become THAT dominant force I'am talking about, he will become THAT next big name.
So you see Hatton had Tszyu to beat, who does Cotto have to beat thats representative of Tszyus caliber?
CC, except I'd add that the old, injured Tszyu that Hatton beat wasn't of the prime Tszyu's caliber either. Hatton's never beaten a world class fighter in his prime, just like Cotto. But Cotto's beaten a lot more good, solid, young, up-and-comers than Hatton has. And after watching each of their last 6 fights or so, I don't see any way Hatton lasts more than 6 or 7 rounds with Cotto at 147. And I don't see him lasting 12 at 140 either. Cotto, unlike the Tszyu that Hatton fought, is at his prime. And he hits harder than even a prime Tszyu did--easily. He also--as someone else here pointed out--doesn't need the room to punch that Tszyu needed. And he's bigger and stronger than Hatton and couldn't be pushed around by him--even at 140.
I'd love to see it--if only because so many people here are irrationally picking Hatton to win AT 147 (??!!!). Of course we
won't ever see it, because Hatton's more realistic than a lot of these posters about his abilities at 147.
cc#125 for you...
IMO, I don't discredit Tszyu during the Hatton fight, injuries and all that are just part of it. Yes he was past his best days but would he have won then what? ? So I do fully credit Hatton for that one, but like I said you can't ride on one win alone.
Yes I agree with you Cottos in his prime, Tszyu was past it. It would be 2 totally different fight for Hatton.
At 140 I think both Hatton & Cotto are about the same as far as body structure, Hatton being a little more stalky.... But both having some type of weight issues, Hatton staying away from the pubs and blowing up willingly and Cotto just tryin to keep his natural body weight down both fighters making sacrifices. At 147 I don't think I need to elaborate much on that as were all aware of whats happened.
About Hatton being more realistic about his abilities at 147, though I don't question Hattons heart and if you ask me Hatton would fight Cotto at whatever weight 140 or 147, at 140 it will never happen now the only thing is for Hatton to give 147 another go which would be really risky.
The thing here is that Hatton will be stuck at 140 and will close out his career with 1 BIG win over an A class fighter and the rest a bunch of C possibly one B class fighter in there..... But thats about it the sad part about it IMO is that Hatton had what it took to make the end of his career a great one and he blew it. I see what hes doing and what he has in mind, hes gonna ride the 140 division 'till the end closing out his career with a fight against either JLC or Witter for an all English/European showdown. Before his last fight he'll probably fight Demetrius Hopkins and or possibly Vivian Harris someone along those lines.....
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
I got the Feeling if Hatton and Cotto meet at 147 is gonna be like the Trinidad - Vargas fight. ( that was a hell of a fight) but I see Cotto edges him
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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CC, except I'd add that the old, injured Tszyu that Hatton beat wasn't of the prime Tszyu's caliber either. Hatton's never beaten a world class fighter in his prime, just like Cotto. But Cotto's beaten a lot more good, solid, young, up-and-comers than Hatton has. And after watching each of their last 6 fights or so, I don't see any way Hatton lasts more than 6 or 7 rounds with Cotto at 147. And I don't see him lasting 12 at 140 either. Cotto, unlike the Tszyu that Hatton fought, is at his prime. And he hits harder than even a prime Tszyu did--easily. He also--as someone else here pointed out--doesn't need the room to punch that Tszyu needed. And he's bigger and stronger than Hatton and couldn't be pushed around by him--even at 140.
Which 'solid up and comers' has he beaten exactly?
A 200 year old Sosa?
A Brazilian who is known only to his immediate family?
An Italian that for some inexplicable reason seems to loiter around the WBCs mandatory slot?
Or are we talking about the heavy handed Malinaggi?
Oh, and don't tell me the likes of Bailey and Torres were tough fighters...they were only tough in hindsight because they gave Miguel a fight. Even then it's relative; is it that they were better than expected or is it perhaps Miguels hype had exceeded his achievement..?
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I'd love to see it--if only because so many people here are irrationally picking Hatton to win AT 147 (??!!!). Of course we won't ever see it, because Hatton's more realistic than a lot of these posters about his abilities at 147
What's irrational is people starting millions of threads declaring Miguel the next big thing when he's only beat Quintana ::**
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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CC, except I'd add that the old, injured Tszyu that Hatton beat wasn't of the prime Tszyu's caliber either. Hatton's never beaten a world class fighter in his prime, just like Cotto. But Cotto's beaten a lot more good, solid, young, up-and-comers than Hatton has. And after watching each of their last 6 fights or so, I don't see any way Hatton lasts more than 6 or 7 rounds with Cotto at 147. And I don't see him lasting 12 at 140 either. Cotto, unlike the Tszyu that Hatton fought, is at his prime. And he hits harder than even a prime Tszyu did--easily. He also--as someone else here pointed out--doesn't need the room to punch that Tszyu needed. And he's bigger and stronger than Hatton and couldn't be pushed around by him--even at 140.
Which 'solid up and comers' has he beaten exactly?
A 200 year old Sosa?
A Brazilian who is known only to his immediate family?
An Italian that for some inexplicable reason seems to loiter around the WBCs mandatory slot?
Or are we talking about the heavy handed Malinaggi?
Oh, and don't tell me the likes of Bailey and Torres were tough fighters...they were only tough in hindsight because they gave Miguel a fight. Even then it's relative; is it that they were better than expected or is it perhaps Miguels hype had exceeded his achievement..?
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I'd love to see it--if only because so many people here are irrationally picking Hatton to win AT 147 (??!!!). Of course we won't ever see it, because Hatton's more realistic than a lot of these posters about his abilities at 147
What's irrational is people starting millions of threads declaring Miguel the next big thing when he's only beat Quintana ::**
Again these threads are just saying he'd beat Hatton, stop changing the meanings
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
I'm not changing the meanings. The boards full of threads going overboard after Miguels win...
What I wanna know is where were all the Cotto fans when he's was scraping past the likes of Bailey and Torres?
Did somebody say bandwagon..?
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
I'm not changing the meanings. The boards full of threads going overboard after Miguels win...
What I wanna know is where were all the Cotto fans when he's was scraping past the likes of Bailey and Torres?
Did somebody say bandwagon..?
I don't see how this is any different than when any other fighter wins convincingly.
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
I'm not changing the meanings. The boards full of threads going overboard after Miguels win...
What I wanna know is where were all the Cotto fans when he's was scraping past the likes of Bailey and Torres?
Did somebody say bandwagon..?
Nope not at all Against Torres he showed tremendous heart and worked through adversity and gutted it out...Whats wrong with that?? He wore Torres out and he took the 10 count
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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I don't see how this is any different than when any other fighter wins convincingly.
Indeed, he won convincingly against a guy who he was expected to win convincingly against. Big deal.
All the pre fight stuff bigging up Quintana was rubbish. We all knew it. If you bought it, then more fool you. Arums not gonna risk Miguel after this long building him up. The timings all wrong.
Y'know, I don't mind watching fighters learning thier trade. I can understand that. I just don't like having the wool pulled over my eyes. After years of Frank Warrens stewardship, I think Hatton fans are more experienced than most at spotting 'fillers'.
Quintana was nothing more than a tentative step into 147. Lets not dress it as anything more.
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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I don't see how this is any different than when any other fighter wins convincingly.
Indeed, he won convincingly against a guy who he was expected to win convincingly against. Big deal.
All the pre fight stuff bigging up Quintana was rubbish. We all knew it. If you bought it, then more fool you. Arums not gonna risk Miguel after this long building him up. The timings all wrong.
Y'know, I don't mind watching fighters learning thier trade. I can understand that. I just don't like having the wool pulled over my eyes. After years of Frank Warrens stewardship, I think Hatton fans are more experienced than most at spotting 'fillers'.
Quintana was nothing more than a tentative step into 147. Lets not dress it as anything more.
OK then who would he have fought, that would not have been a filler?
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Well, Harris for one...but Cotto gave up his mandatory slot for a shot a Kelson Pinto and the lightly regarded (on that side of the pond anyway) WBO belt...
Here's what I also said yesterday:
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Well if your argument is going to be 'who else was there?' - he didn't have to 'make do' at 140. He could of stepped up to 147 a lot sooner. It's no secret he's struggled with the weight for some time.
So he could've also moved up. Plenty of talent at 147...and 12 months ago that also meant a lot of the 140lb old guard. The weight differential would've still been in Miguels favour.
AND...If he's such a monster at 147 why've they waited this long to step him up?
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
Well, Harris for one...but Cotto gave up his mandatory slot for a shot a Kelson Pinto and the lightly regarded (on that side of the pond anyway) WBO belt...
Vivian Harris? The one that got KOed by Carlos Maussa?
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Harris was and still is dangerous opposition. You know why Maussa beat him ;)
So why didn't he step up to 147 sooner?
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
Harris was and still is dangerous opposition. You know why Maussa beat him ;)
So why didn't he step up to 147 sooner?
I agree he should have stepped up earlier, I'll give you that.
So now you have to explain to me how Vivian Harris is better competition that Carlos Quintana. Especially at 147.
Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
Harris was and still is dangerous opposition. You know why Maussa beat him ;)
So why didn't he step up to 147 sooner?
Maussa sucks but Harris sucks even more. That's why Maussa beat him. Vivian Harris? Talk about reaching.
