Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
I haven't seen the fight yet (i'll download it later) but i must say, just from reading the posts, i can't honestly believe how easy Devon is getting off here. If Khan struggled that badly with Kotelnik, almost everybody on here would be jumping down his neck about him being all hype. Alexander struggles and everyone's like 'It'll be good for him' and 'This is a better Kotelnik than the one who fought Khan' and 'I'd rather he fought tough fights than knock some guy out in 2 rounds.'
Khan got more stick for beating Kotelnik comfortably than what Alexander got for barely beating him. Itso Facto.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
I haven't seen the fight yet (i'll download it later) but i must say, just from reading the posts, i can't honestly believe how easy Devon is getting off here. If Khan struggled that badly with Kotelnik, almost everybody on here would be jumping down his neck about him being all hype. Alexander struggles and everyone's like 'It'll be good for him' and 'This is a better Kotelnik than the one who fought Khan' and 'I'd rather he fought tough fights than knock some guy out in 2 rounds.'
Khan got more stick for beating Kotelnik comfortably than what Alexander got for barely beating him. Itso Facto.
Mate it makes me laugh all this bullshit in here, Devon was probably overlooking him, he had an off night we are all entitled to that etc etc. Like you say if that was Khan in there this thread would now be 20 pages long with how again he has been exposed and got a gift etc etc. Double standards mate.
For me Alexander is another overrated prospect, Khan would jab his head off all night, Kotelnik was snapping his neck everytime he threw his jab.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
I haven't seen the fight yet (i'll download it later) but i must say, just from reading the posts, i can't honestly believe how easy Devon is getting off here. If Khan struggled that badly with Kotelnik, almost everybody on here would be jumping down his neck about him being all hype. Alexander struggles and everyone's like 'It'll be good for him' and 'This is a better Kotelnik than the one who fought Khan' and 'I'd rather he fought tough fights than knock some guy out in 2 rounds.'
Khan got more stick for beating Kotelnik comfortably than what Alexander got for barely beating him. Itso Facto.
I fully expected Khan to struggle with Kotelnik and I don't think it would have been a mark against him if he did.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
And regarding Khan, who I quite like as a fighter, I think he gets a lot more shit than a guy like Alexander because he's looked so shaky so many times. He was extremely protected, has been buzzed by light-punchers, and was knocked out cold, so people are hyper-critical of him. Plus, for whatever reason a lot of people just seem to not like him. He's improved by leaps and bounds over his last 3 fights, but I do understand why people are still taking a wait-and-see approach with him.
Alexander has never really had those questions surrounding him. He's looked very impressive in most of his fights and he's never had the kinds of questions surrounding him that Khan has. I think it's understandable that people are quicker to cut him a bit of slack for one bad performance when Khan has had several.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
0james0
Which leads me to think he is about where Khan was when he fought Kotelnik in his career. The difference was Khan managed to make his a title fight.
It's too early to say, but I think he can be good, but he is probably 3 fights behind where Khan is in terms of experience, skills and consistancy.
I was trying to say that after he beat Witter but then he KO'd Urango in spectacular fashion even if he wasn't spectacular the whole fight. I completely agree with you but I think when you compare him and Khan, you are just comparing different things. The questions with Alexander are completely different you ask of Khan. To me while Khan has looked improved for sure, I really don't think beating Malignaggi means much because he did to me what was expected. Every strength Malignaggi had, Khan was better at and there wasn't any way Malignaggi was going to dent his chin BUT Malignaggi took chances and found his mark a lot in that bout. The huge question with Khan is defense, stamina and of course his chin. Does he have a good enough defense through 12 rounds with a huge banger like Maidana? Can he keep from coming unglued when he gets excited, chasing people around the ring with his body square to them, will he be able to not lapse enough to beat Bradley, Alexander or Maidana. Beating Malignaggi answers none of these.
Alexander too, I didn't think his game was really rounded out enough. He's fairly crude offensively, he doesn't change things up much. He's just really repetitive, he repeats the same combinations over and over, at least be a tricky southpaw. He's a pinpoint counterpuncher though, but he can't seem to get out of the way of a good jab.
I'd say if they are all claiming they are ready, let Bradley duel Alexander while Khan fights Maidana and Ortiz fights Kotelnik. That would be fun.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
And regarding Khan, who I quite like as a fighter, I think he gets a lot more shit than a guy like Alexander because he's looked so shaky so many times. He was extremely protected, has been buzzed by light-punchers, and was knocked out cold, so people are hyper-critical of him. Plus, for whatever reason a lot of people just seem to not like him. He's improved by leaps and bounds over his last 3 fights, but I do understand why people are still taking a wait-and-see approach with him.
Alexander has never really had those questions surrounding him. He's looked very impressive in most of his fights and he's never had the kinds of questions surrounding him that Khan has. I think it's understandable that people are quicker to cut him a bit of slack for one bad performance when Khan has had several.
You pretty much nail it exactly on why people such as myself are willing to give Alexander a little bit of slack compared to Khan. Furthermore, Alexander and Bradley are closed to getting it on if the rumors are true and Bradley is arguably the best 140 pound fighter in the world. I mean you don't hear about Alexander calling out the best 140 pound fighters and then turns around and tries to justify why a JMM fight is good for his career?
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Lederman was smoking some good shit, because he kept talking about some punches that alexander consistenly was landing on kotelnik, I couldn't see em. Kotelnik snapped devons head back consistenly, and I feel like he won the fight, but yeah there was no way in hell he was getting the decision in stl. I think people were critical of khan taking the kotelnik fight because they want to see his chin tested again, thats the one big question mark that still surrounds him. As for a bradley alexander matchup, i think bradley takes it, not just based on tonights performance.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skel1983
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
I haven't seen the fight yet (i'll download it later) but i must say, just from reading the posts, i can't honestly believe how easy Devon is getting off here. If Khan struggled that badly with Kotelnik, almost everybody on here would be jumping down his neck about him being all hype. Alexander struggles and everyone's like 'It'll be good for him' and 'This is a better Kotelnik than the one who fought Khan' and 'I'd rather he fought tough fights than knock some guy out in 2 rounds.'
Khan got more stick for beating Kotelnik comfortably than what Alexander got for barely beating him. Itso Facto.
Mate it makes me laugh all this bullshit in here, Devon was probably overlooking him, he had an off night we are all entitled to that etc etc. Like you say if that was Khan in there this thread would now be 20 pages long with how again he has been exposed and got a gift etc etc. Double standards mate.
For me Alexander is another overrated prospect, Khan would jab his head off all night, Kotelnik was snapping his neck everytime he threw his jab.
Exactly, Kotelnik was ostracised as the worst belt holder in history when Khan challenged him, yet he is seen here as legit comp for a unified champ (which he actually proved the other night).
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
And regarding Khan, who I quite like as a fighter, I think he gets a lot more shit than a guy like Alexander because he's looked so shaky so many times. He was extremely protected, has been buzzed by light-punchers, and was knocked out cold, so people are hyper-critical of him. Plus, for whatever reason a lot of people just seem to not like him. He's improved by leaps and bounds over his last 3 fights, but I do understand why people are still taking a wait-and-see approach with him.
Alexander has never really had those questions surrounding him. He's looked very impressive in most of his fights and he's never had the kinds of questions surrounding him that Khan has. I think it's understandable that people are quicker to cut him a bit of slack for one bad performance when Khan has had several.
But you could also argue that Khan has had more spectacular performances than Alexander. He pretty much shut out Kotelnik, and stopped Malignaggi who was coming off the two best performances of his life. He ko'd his mandatory inside 70 odd seconds, in an odd fight where Khan probably would have received more credit had he allowed Salita into the fight and taken him out late on. He did the same thing with Graham Earl who was at least meant to test him after going hell for leather with Katsidis in the previous fight.
Even before that, he had some stellar performances against some good domestic fighters.
Even when Khan was hurt against Limond (was clipped with a temple shot), he was spectacular in the very next round when he stopped him. And after that, he was only down against Gomez, who to be fair caught him square on and cuffed him over. Since he's moved up to 140 he's looked excellent, especially considering it wasn't long ago that he was flat out on his back.
Granted he hasn't been in with much in the way of knockout danger since, but i'm genuinely surprised at how very few are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I personally don't think there is loads in it between Alexander and Khan. I was just a little surprised that Khan got more stick for easily beating Kotelnik than Alexander got for scraping by.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
And regarding Khan, who I quite like as a fighter, I think he gets a lot more shit than a guy like Alexander because he's looked so shaky so many times. He was extremely protected, has been buzzed by light-punchers, and was knocked out cold, so people are hyper-critical of him. Plus, for whatever reason a lot of people just seem to not like him. He's improved by leaps and bounds over his last 3 fights, but I do understand why people are still taking a wait-and-see approach with him.
Alexander has never really had those questions surrounding him. He's looked very impressive in most of his fights and he's never had the kinds of questions surrounding him that Khan has. I think it's understandable that people are quicker to cut him a bit of slack for one bad performance when Khan has had several.
But you could also argue that Khan has had more spectacular performances than Alexander. He pretty much shut out Kotelnik, and stopped Malignaggi who was coming off the two best performances of his life. He ko'd his mandatory inside 70 odd seconds, in an odd fight where Khan probably would have received more credit had he allowed Salita into the fight and taken him out late on. He did the same thing with Graham Earl who was at least meant to test him after going hell for leather with Katsidis in the previous fight.
Even before that, he had some stellar performances against some good domestic fighters.
Even when Khan was hurt against Limond (was clipped with a temple shot), he was spectacular in the very next round when he stopped him. And after that, he was only down against Gomez, who to be fair caught him square on and cuffed him over. Since he's moved up to 140 he's looked excellent, especially considering it wasn't long ago that he was flat out on his back.
Granted he hasn't been in with much in the way of knockout danger since, but i'm genuinely surprised at how very few are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I personally don't think there is loads in it between Alexander and Khan. I was just a little surprised that Khan got more stick for easily beating Kotelnik than Alexander got for scraping by.
Alexander beating guys like Witter and Urango are far more impressive victories than beating Salita and Malignaggi. So no they're not the same in that regard and Alexander could be taking on Bradley next. In fact what is Khan's most impressive victory against a very good opponent? Now compared that to Alexander's most impressive victory against a very good opponent. And who is Khan fighting next? He wants to fight a faded JMM at 140, where JMM looked like crap fighting at 142 before the Diaz rematch.
Khan and Alexander's level of opposition and performance are still far apart. Get back to me when Khan fights good caliber opponents like Witter and Urango. You know decent opposition with at least a 50% ko ratio. And as for someone that keeps on bringing up his age at 23 and resume, I'll take Koki Kameda's resume over his anyday, same age also.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
And regarding Khan, who I quite like as a fighter, I think he gets a lot more shit than a guy like Alexander because he's looked so shaky so many times. He was extremely protected, has been buzzed by light-punchers, and was knocked out cold, so people are hyper-critical of him. Plus, for whatever reason a lot of people just seem to not like him. He's improved by leaps and bounds over his last 3 fights, but I do understand why people are still taking a wait-and-see approach with him.
Alexander has never really had those questions surrounding him. He's looked very impressive in most of his fights and he's never had the kinds of questions surrounding him that Khan has. I think it's understandable that people are quicker to cut him a bit of slack for one bad performance when Khan has had several.
But you could also argue that Khan has had more spectacular performances than Alexander. He pretty much shut out Kotelnik, and stopped Malignaggi who was coming off the two best performances of his life. He ko'd his mandatory inside 70 odd seconds, in an odd fight where Khan probably would have received more credit had he allowed Salita into the fight and taken him out late on. He did the same thing with Graham Earl who was at least meant to test him after going hell for leather with Katsidis in the previous fight.
Even before that, he had some stellar performances against some good domestic fighters.
Even when Khan was hurt against Limond (was clipped with a temple shot), he was spectacular in the very next round when he stopped him. And after that, he was only down against Gomez, who to be fair caught him square on and cuffed him over. Since he's moved up to 140 he's looked excellent, especially considering it wasn't long ago that he was flat out on his back.
Granted he hasn't been in with much in the way of knockout danger since, but i'm genuinely surprised at how very few are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I personally don't think there is loads in it between Alexander and Khan. I was just a little surprised that Khan got more stick for easily beating Kotelnik than Alexander got for scraping by.
Alexander beating guys like Witter and Urango are far more impressive victories than beating Salita and Malignaggi. So no they're not the same in that regard and Alexander could be taking on Bradley next. In fact what is Khan's most impressive victory against a very good opponent? Now compared that to Alexander's most impressive victory against a very good opponent. And who is Khan fighting next? He wants to fight a faded JMM at 140, where JMM looked like crap fighting at 142 before the Diaz rematch.
Khan and Alexander's level of opposition and performance are still far apart. Get back to me when Khan fights good caliber opponents
like Witter and Urango. You know decent opposition with at least a 50% ko ratio. And as for someone that keeps on bringing up his age at 23 and resume, I'll take Koki Kameda's resume over his anyday, same age also.
Uusually agree with most you say mate but that version of Witter was shot to fuck and was awful.
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Not that I care one way or another about any of these guys, but I just want to ask this......could this be a case of styles making fights? And if so, what would that mean for #1 Alexander-Bradley and #2 Alexander-Khan?
Re: Cloud-Johnson/Alexander - Kotelnik
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Not that I care one way or another about any of these guys, but I just want to ask this......could this be a case of styles making fights? And if so, what would that mean for #1 Alexander-Bradley and #2 Alexander-Khan?
Not for me I just think Alexander looked a bit one dimensional and clueless in there, Kotlenik is a solid guy but he looked out of idea's in there and dare I say it if Kotelnik could punch Alexander would of been knocked out, Khan for me would outbox and possibly stop Alexander. Bradley similar will be to much for me for Alexander.
