Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spicoli
avoiding bigger challenges while at the same time identifying he completely cleaned out his division
then remained active facing back to back to back #1 ranked challengers, set division records
and only then fought 3 legends.
"Hagler didn't take bigger challenges" and Duran, Hearns and Leonard were "smaller".
Even though every single one of them would go on to win championships at middle or Spr middle or Lt heavy. Just seems to make the smaller talk a nonstarter.
I'll stick to my take in that zero pass for Hagler is needed simply because he didn't jump what is two divisions today
for a fight no one was talking about.
Hagler could have simply sought out lesser
On a side I'm just going to spend spare time trying to think of legends who stayed at their natural weight range on the very top/championship scene for the duration of careers. It's actually quite the distinction.
he had basically cleaned out middleweight with the vito rematch, marvin chose to remain at middleweight to get his number of defenses up & await the big purses that came with the names below him
those back to back number one challenges who for defense numbers & purses, nothing wrong with that. moving up would have been a bigger challenge
three legends, yes,
but none of them had done anything substantial at middle. two sanctioning bodies didn't want the ray fight to happen
making a run at light heavy would have been a bigger challenge than fighting roberto, tommy & ray
didn't every single one of them not start at lower divisions than marvin? just because the went up higher doesn't mean they didn't start out at lower weights. just seems to make the marvin was a small middleweight talk a nonstarter
that's fine for you to stick to your zero pass needed, i disagree. it's not that he simply didn't move up, that is part of it. he chose to stick around at middleweight & avoided herol & mike for the ray fight, then sat on the sidelines waiting on a rematch
i still find it strange that no one was talking about a potential michael spinks v marvin fight
marvin did stick around making defenses & collecting purses, instead of looking for bigger challenges
when you look at those legends who stayed at their natural weight or the duration of careers, take note of the last five to six years of their careers. it would be interesting to see what type of opposition they fought. might make for a another thread about what fighters finished their careers strongest
Neither had McCallum, far from it at the time. But in this instance now it's ok if Hagler faced a "smaller" fighter right? One far less established, widely known, battle tested, or career accomplished overall compared to Duran, Hearns and Leonard. And Hearns was actually top ranked at 160 when he faced Marvin and I'll never be convinced Mike was a bigger threat to Hagler than Tommy.
as i said in post number fifty six, late eighty six or early eighty seven instead of the ray leonard fight would have been better timing for a mike mccallum fight. i didn't say mike had done anything at middle, but he should have been perceived as a better challenge than an almost three year inactive ray who was basically a welterweight. marvin was also ordered to fight herol but instead went for ray. after the vito rematch marvin could have looked to move up, that would have been my preference. what fights did tommy have that earned him top ranking at middle? i agree that tommy was a bigger threat than mike but he wasn't a bigger challenge than michael spinks & mike & herol should have been seen as bigger threats than ray
Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler
I guess there's two schools of thought.
There are those who insist that fighters move up in weight to be considered "taking on challenges."
Then there are others who feel a fighter should fight in the weight he is comfortable in. If the fighter doesn't feel he can carry his power or skills to a higher weight... so be it.
There are more than a few fighters who have fought practically their entire careers in one division, or have reached a ceiling beyond which they choose not to move up.
Hagler being one. GGG being another. Of course, GGG allowed himself to get dragged to 168 at 40 years old (for the money), so he could get his ass kicked by a much younger, natural 168-pounder. But most of his career, he was a middleweight.
Now... there are the Pacquiao's of the world. I admire Pacquiao very much. He went up through several weight divisions, and was successful. Of course, there are those who suspect PEDs... but that's another story.
To those who can move up 2 or 3 divisions and be successful... good for them.
I was a HUGE Trinidad fan... and he moved from 147 to 154, and even won a championship at 160 before being beaten by an ATG middleweight in Hopkins.
Cotto was SUPER at 140, 147... won at 154... but I always thought his try to be successful at 160 was a bridge too far. At some point your body doesn't carry the weight and the power.
So basically it's all a matter of tastes.
I admire the guys who can traverse through 2 or 3 division. But I also admire the guys who are mega dominant in one weight division year in and year out.
Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Golovkin found himself in a similar situation, waiting for Alvarez to fully commit to the 160-pound division. It would have been fascinating to see how he fared against the elite at 168 between 2013 and 2017, with potential matchups that could have further shaped his legacy.
Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Golovkin found himself in a similar situation, waiting for Alvarez to fully commit to the 160-pound division. It would have been fascinating to see how he fared against the elite at 168 between 2013 and 2017, with potential matchups that could have further shaped his legacy.
This "waiting for Alvarez" was back when Team Canelo coined the word "marinating." Meanwhile, Canelo somehow saw fit to go up and fight JCC Jr at 164, but nooo.... he had to "marinate" the 1st fight against GGG at 160.
But back to Golovkin, I just see a guy who was content with the idea of reigning over the middleweight division his entire career. Could he have been successful at 168 earlier in his career? Who knows. But he allowed at least part of his career path to be dictated by Canelo. First by waiting on him and his "marinating"... and finally by allowing himself to be dragged to 168 at 40 years old, with all the chips stacked in Canelo's favor.
Re: RIP Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Golovkin found himself in a similar situation, waiting for Alvarez to fully commit to the 160-pound division. It would have been fascinating to see how he fared against the elite at 168 between 2013 and 2017, with potential matchups that could have further shaped his legacy.
ggg wasn't at the end of his career during that period but he did wait around for the big money canelo would bring
