Lyle's take on "Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather Jr.

So Floyd wants to retire soon, that's cool with me I mean if he feels like he has accomplished everything he wants to that's fine HOWEVER will he be looked at as an ALL-TIME GREAT?

Let us discuss this and compare him to other fighters in similar weight classes.

"Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather Jr. 37(24 KO)-0-0: Greats- I honestly have a hard time finding "GREATS" PBF fought but he has a lot of very good fighters on his record: Corrales, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Castillo, Baldomir

"Sugar" Ray Leonard 36 (25 KO)-3-1: Greats - Hearns, Duran, Hagler, Benitez. Good - Camacho, Norris, Mayweather Sr.,

Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor 39(35 KO)-1-0: Greats - Arguello, Cervantes. Good - Kim, Kameda, Johnson.

I honestly think unless Floyd fights Shane Mosely, Oscar De la Hoya, or Winky Wright he'll be on the fringe of being an all-time Great.


Maybe it's because he's just so good, or maybe he just hasn't been in with the best fighters....he should have fought Mosley already and the De la Hoya fight NEEDS to happen....Floyd can't beat those guys IMO, they are too tough to be KO'd and too good of boxers to let themselves be outboxed

Very nicely said Lyle.

CC 4 that.

I agree ;)

Thank you, cc back

It's not that I don't think Floyd is talented I just don't think he has taken the oppertunities to show boxing fans just how good he is. Here's a short list of guys he had the chance to/didn't/hasn't fought

Oscar De la Hoya
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Antonio Margarito
Joel Casamayor
Acelino Frietas
Jorge Barrios
Vernon Forrest
Ricardo Mayorga
Winky Wright
Jesse James Leija
Pernell Whittaker


I mean not all of these guys are world beaters but they are better than let's say......Victoriano Sosa and Henry Bruseles

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Thank you, cc back

It's not that I don't think Floyd is talented I just don't think he has taken the oppertunities to show boxing fans just how good he is. Here's a short list of guys he had the chance to/didn't/hasn't fought

Oscar De la Hoya
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Antonio Margarito
Joel Casamayor
Acelino Frietas
Jorge Barrios
Vernon Forrest
Ricardo Mayorga
Winky Wright
Jesse James Leija
Pernell Whittaker


I mean not all of these guys are world beaters but they are better than let's say......Victoriano Sosa and Henry Bruseles

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remember he was at 130 or 135 until a couple years ago though... So to say he already should have fought DLH, Mosley, Wright, Forrest, Mayorga, etc.. Is kind of silly... Also Pernell Whittaker was long gone by 1997, and still at 147 then, another one that doesn't make any sense... As far as Leija, Barrios, Freitas, Casamayor... Are they really any better than the guys he did beat at 130 or 135?? Castillo and Corrales are pretty much a cut above all of those guys. So basically there are one or two fighters there that you could make an arguement Floyd should have fought... Tszyu and Hatton.. But they fought each other just as Floyd made his debut at 140... Which resulted in Kt retiring.. THen Hatton moved up to welter, asked for 13 million against Floyd, scraped by collazo and moved down to 140. Any fight on there which would have been meaningful for Floyd and would improve his legacy, either couldn't have happened or still could, namely Mosley or DLH. And Im sure he'd like to fight either of them..

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Originally Posted by Lyle

So Floyd wants to retire soon, that's cool with me I mean if he feels like he has accomplished everything he wants to that's fine HOWEVER will he be looked at as an ALL-TIME GREAT?

Let us discuss this and compare him to other fighters in similar weight classes.

"Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather Jr. 37(24 KO)-0-0: Greats- I honestly have a hard time finding "GREATS" PBF fought but he has a lot of very good fighters on his record: Corrales, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Castillo, Baldomir

"Sugar" Ray Leonard 36 (25 KO)-3-1: Greats - Hearns, Duran, Hagler, Benitez. Good - Camacho, Norris, Mayweather Sr.,

Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor 39(35 KO)-1-0: Greats - Arguello, Cervantes. Good - Kim, Kameda, Johnson.

I honestly think unless Floyd fights Shane Mosely, Oscar De la Hoya, or Winky Wright he'll be on the fringe of being an all-time Great.


Maybe it's because he's just so good, or maybe he just hasn't been in with the best fighters....he should have fought Mosley already and the De la Hoya fight NEEDS to happen....Floyd can't beat those guys IMO, they are too tough to be KO'd and too good of boxers to let themselves be outboxed

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:coolclick: spot on! TBH i actaully do think Floyd could of beaten Pryor, but i tink SRL would of taken him. SRL would of beaten Pryor aswell no matter what people say about him ducking Pryor.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Thank you, cc back

It's not that I don't think Floyd is talented I just don't think he has taken the oppertunities to show boxing fans just how good he is. Here's a short list of guys he had the chance to/didn't/hasn't fought

Oscar De la Hoya
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Antonio Margarito
Joel Casamayor
Acelino Frietas
Jorge Barrios
Vernon Forrest
Ricardo Mayorga
Winky Wright
Jesse James Leija
Pernell Whittaker


I mean not all of these guys are world beaters but they are better than let's say......Victoriano Sosa and Henry Bruseles

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remember he was at 130 or 135 until a couple years ago though... So to say he already should have fought DLH, Mosley, Wright, Forrest, Mayorga, etc.. Is kind of silly... Also Pernell Whittaker was long gone by 1997, and still at 147 then, another one that doesn't make any sense... As far as Leija, Barrios, Freitas, Casamayor... Are they really any better than the guys he did beat at 130 or 135?? Castillo and Corrales are pretty much a cut above all of those guys. So basically there are one or two fighters there that you could make an arguement Floyd should have fought... Tszyu and Hatton.. But they fought each other just as Floyd made his debut at 140... Which resulted in Kt retiring.. THen Hatton moved up to welter, asked for 13 million against Floyd, scraped by collazo and moved down to 140. Any fight on there which would have been meaningful for Floyd and would improve his legacy, either couldn't have happened or still could, namely Mosley or DLH. And Im sure he'd like to fight either of them..

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CC and absolute perfection :appl:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

So Floyd wants to retire soon, that's cool with me I mean if he feels like he has accomplished everything he wants to that's fine HOWEVER will he be looked at as an ALL-TIME GREAT?

Let us discuss this and compare him to other fighters in similar weight classes.

"Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather Jr. 37(24 KO)-0-0: Greats- I honestly have a hard time finding "GREATS" PBF fought but he has a lot of very good fighters on his record: Corrales, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Castillo, Baldomir

"Sugar" Ray Leonard 36 (25 KO)-3-1: Greats - Hearns, Duran, Hagler, Benitez. Good - Camacho, Norris, Mayweather Sr.,

Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor 39(35 KO)-1-0: Greats - Arguello, Cervantes. Good - Kim, Kameda, Johnson.

I honestly think unless Floyd fights Shane Mosely, Oscar De la Hoya, or Winky Wright he'll be on the fringe of being an all-time Great.


Maybe it's because he's just so good, or maybe he just hasn't been in with the best fighters....he should have fought Mosley already and the De la Hoya fight NEEDS to happen....Floyd can't beat those guys IMO, they are too tough to be KO'd and too good of boxers to let themselves be outboxed

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Antonio Cervantes is not even close to be considered an alltime great. I'd be hardpressed to even say he was very good.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Thank you, cc back

It's not that I don't think Floyd is talented I just don't think he has taken the oppertunities to show boxing fans just how good he is. Here's a short list of guys he had the chance to/didn't/hasn't fought

Oscar De la Hoya
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Antonio Margarito
Joel Casamayor
Acelino Frietas
Jorge Barrios
Vernon Forrest
Ricardo Mayorga
Winky Wright
Jesse James Leija
Pernell Whittaker


I mean not all of these guys are world beaters but they are better than let's say......Victoriano Sosa and Henry Bruseles

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If Floyd beat any 5 of those I would respect him a bit.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

So Floyd wants to retire soon, that's cool with me I mean if he feels like he has accomplished everything he wants to that's fine HOWEVER will he be looked at as an ALL-TIME GREAT?

Let us discuss this and compare him to other fighters in similar weight classes.

"Pretty Boy" Floyd Mayweather Jr. 37(24 KO)-0-0: Greats- I honestly have a hard time finding "GREATS" PBF fought but he has a lot of very good fighters on his record: Corrales, Gatti, Mitchell, Judah, Castillo, Baldomir

"Sugar" Ray Leonard 36 (25 KO)-3-1: Greats - Hearns, Duran, Hagler, Benitez. Good - Camacho, Norris, Mayweather Sr.,

Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor 39(35 KO)-1-0: Greats - Arguello, Cervantes. Good - Kim, Kameda, Johnson.

I honestly think unless Floyd fights Shane Mosely, Oscar De la Hoya, or Winky Wright he'll be on the fringe of being an all-time Great.


Maybe it's because he's just so good, or maybe he just hasn't been in with the best fighters....he should have fought Mosley already and the De la Hoya fight NEEDS to happen....Floyd can't beat those guys IMO, they are too tough to be KO'd and too good of boxers to let themselves be outboxed

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Well said CC

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Thank you, cc back

It's not that I don't think Floyd is talented I just don't think he has taken the oppertunities to show boxing fans just how good he is. Here's a short list of guys he had the chance to/didn't/hasn't fought

Oscar De la Hoya
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Antonio Margarito
Joel Casamayor
Acelino Frietas
Jorge Barrios
Vernon Forrest
Ricardo Mayorga
Winky Wright
Jesse James Leija
Pernell Whittaker


I mean not all of these guys are world beaters but they are better than let's say......Victoriano Sosa and Henry Bruseles

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remember he was at 130 or 135 until a couple years ago though... So to say he already should have fought DLH, Mosley, Wright, Forrest, Mayorga, etc.. Is kind of silly... Also Pernell Whittaker was long gone by 1997, and still at 147 then, another one that doesn't make any sense... As far as Leija, Barrios, Freitas, Casamayor... Are they really any better than the guys he did beat at 130 or 135?? Castillo and Corrales are pretty much a cut above all of those guys. So basically there are one or two fighters there that you could make an arguement Floyd should have fought... Tszyu and Hatton.. But they fought each other just as Floyd made his debut at 140... Which resulted in Kt retiring.. THen Hatton moved up to welter, asked for 13 million against Floyd, scraped by collazo and moved down to 140. Any fight on there which would have been meaningful for Floyd and would improve his legacy, either couldn't have happened or still could, namely Mosley or DLH. And Im sure he'd like to fight either of them..

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Its no secret Floyd ducked Stevie Johnston.

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Originally Posted by Hairdoo

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Originally Posted by p4pking

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Thank you, cc back

It's not that I don't think Floyd is talented I just don't think he has taken the oppertunities to show boxing fans just how good he is. Here's a short list of guys he had the chance to/didn't/hasn't fought

Oscar De la Hoya
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Antonio Margarito
Joel Casamayor
Acelino Frietas
Jorge Barrios
Vernon Forrest
Ricardo Mayorga
Winky Wright
Jesse James Leija
Pernell Whittaker


I mean not all of these guys are world beaters but they are better than let's say......Victoriano Sosa and Henry Bruseles

---

remember he was at 130 or 135 until a couple years ago though... So to say he already should have fought DLH, Mosley, Wright, Forrest, Mayorga, etc.. Is kind of silly... Also Pernell Whittaker was long gone by 1997, and still at 147 then, another one that doesn't make any sense... As far as Leija, Barrios, Freitas, Casamayor... Are they really any better than the guys he did beat at 130 or 135?? Castillo and Corrales are pretty much a cut above all of those guys. So basically there are one or two fighters there that you could make an arguement Floyd should have fought... Tszyu and Hatton.. But they fought each other just as Floyd made his debut at 140... Which resulted in Kt retiring.. THen Hatton moved up to welter, asked for 13 million against Floyd, scraped by collazo and moved down to 140. Any fight on there which would have been meaningful for Floyd and would improve his legacy, either couldn't have happened or still could, namely Mosley or DLH. And Im sure he'd like to fight either of them..

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Its no secret Floyd ducked Stevie Johnston.

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Before or after he faced the guy that beat him twice for the title... ::** And what the hell did Stevie Johnston ever do anyways.. Beat Angel Manfredy in a hard fought decision after Floyd TKOed him in 2 rounds just previously?

I understand about Floyd at his weight classes but to be the best SOMETIMES you have to move up or down in weight to make the big fights.

The point is the oppertunity was there

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I understand about Floyd at his weight classes but to be the best SOMETIMES you have to move up or down in weight to make the big fights.

The point is the oppertunity was there

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And my point is, it wasn't there. Not realistically. No more than saying the oppourtunity is there for Manny Pacquiao to move up and fight Ricky Hatton, Castillo, etc.. It just woudln't fly at the time.. All those people you listed, Mosley, DLH, Forrest, Mayorga, Wright, were at the least full blown welterweights while Floyd was just moving up to 135.. At what point would those matchups have made sense other than if they were to happen now?? There are only a couple guys you named who Floyd realistically could have fought before this year, and they were no better than those he did face.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Thank you, cc back

It's not that I don't think Floyd is talented I just don't think he has taken the oppertunities to show boxing fans just how good he is. Here's a short list of guys he had the chance to/didn't/hasn't fought

Oscar De la Hoya
Shane Mosley
Kostya Tszyu
Ricky Hatton
Miguel Cotto
Antonio Margarito
Joel Casamayor
Acelino Frietas
Jorge Barrios
Vernon Forrest
Ricardo Mayorga
Winky Wright
Jesse James Leija
Pernell Whittaker


I mean not all of these guys are world beaters but they are better than let's say......Victoriano Sosa and Henry Bruseles

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The names with a line through them are just stupid.  At no times were those fights ever considered.  Or even possible.  The underline names are fighters who don't want to fight Mayweather.  That leaves 4 names.  Margarito is clearly undeserving.  Casamayor I have no doubt would fight him.  But this was a fight that I would of love to see at 130.  Right now Mayweather beats Casamayor pretty easily.  And it's a fight Mayweather would get cruified if he took it.  Wright?  I don't think even Wright knows what he wants.  And he has unsettled bizness with Taylor that need to be addressed.  De La Hoya?  Well we'll see what Oscar decides next year.  Cuz Mayweather has made his wishes clear.

A Leija fight back int he day would have been ok

Barrios is a tough SOB I'm sure he'd have moved up to 140 to fight PBF

Mosely and Floyd should have been fought a looooong time ago

De la Hoya would give Floyd a hard fight and I think he would beat PBF