Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
Will boxing fans be debating this one for the next 20 years?
Will ODLH fans be coming up with reasons why they think Oscar should have been given the decision in a close fight that he probably just failed to do enough in, just like Marvellous Marvin 20 years ago?
I scored the fight 115-113 in favour of Mayweather; ironically I had exactly the same score in favour of Leonard versus Hagler, although I don't believe that Marvin fought as well as Oscar did against Floyd.
Maybe that tells you something!!!! :laugh: :alcoholic:
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
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Originally Posted by Syntax Error
Will boxing fans be debating this one for the next 20 years?
Will ODLH fans be coming up with reasons why they think Oscar should have been given the decision in a close fight that he probably just failed to do enough in, just like Marvellous Marvin 20 years ago?
I scored the fight 115-113 in favour of Mayweather; ironically I had exactly the same score in favour of Leonard versus Hagler, although I don't believe that Marvin fought as well as Oscar did against Floyd.
Maybe that tells you something!!!! :laugh: :alcoholic:
:o :o Are you on crack?
To compare the effort of either man to that of Leonard or Hagler in their fight is absolutely assinine.. Almost as much so as it is to consider it as contraversial a decision.. Hagler was completely dominant in large parts of the fight and hurt Leonard BADLY in many instances as well as dealt a huge accumulation of damage and basically beat the life out of SRL by the end of the fight.. I will always think Hagler edged that fight out after giving away too many early rounds.. But more importantly he fought MUCH more valiantly and was FAR more effective than Oscar was against Floyd.. Hagler applied effective aggression all night long, wore his guy down and landed a lot of very hard flush shots. Oscar didn't land one thing close to any number of shots Hagler was consistently landing.. THe only thing comparable is perhaps the effort put forth by SRL and Floyd. In terms of the effort/tactics put forth by Leonard and Mayweather, there is perhaps a small likeness... THe difference is Floyd only needed to put forth the performance he did and was in control of the fight in doing so, wheras Leonard was forced to dig much much deeper simply to last the distance.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntax Error
Will boxing fans be debating this one for the next 20 years?
Will ODLH fans be coming up with reasons why they think Oscar should have been given the decision in a close fight that he probably just failed to do enough in, just like Marvellous Marvin 20 years ago?
I scored the fight 115-113 in favour of Mayweather; ironically I had exactly the same score in favour of Leonard versus Hagler, although I don't believe that Marvin fought as well as Oscar did against Floyd.
Maybe that tells you something!!!! :laugh: :alcoholic:
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
No not at all.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntax Error
Will boxing fans be debating this one for the next 20 years?
Will ODLH fans be coming up with reasons why they think Oscar should have been given the decision in a close fight that he probably just failed to do enough in, just like Marvellous Marvin 20 years ago?
I scored the fight 115-113 in favour of Mayweather; ironically I had exactly the same score in favour of Leonard versus Hagler, although I don't believe that Marvin fought as well as Oscar did against Floyd.
Maybe that tells you something!!!! :laugh: :alcoholic:
:o :o Are you on crack?
To compare the effort of either man to that of Leonard or Hagler in their fight is absolutely assinine.. Almost as much so as it is to consider it as contraversial a decision.. Hagler was completely dominant in large parts of the fight and hurt Leonard BADLY in many instances as well as dealt a huge accumulation of damage and basically beat the life out of SRL by the end of the fight.. I will always think Hagler edged that fight out after giving away too many early rounds.. But more importantly he fought MUCH more valiantly and was FAR more effective than Oscar was against Floyd.. Hagler applied effective aggression all night long, wore his guy down and landed a lot of very hard flush shots. Oscar didn't land one thing close to any number of shots Hagler was consistently landing.. THe only thing comparable is perhaps the effort put forth by SRL and Floyd. In terms of the effort/tactics put forth by Leonard and Mayweather, there is perhaps a small likeness... THe difference is Floyd only needed to put forth the performance he did and was in control of the fight in doing so, wheras Leonard was forced to dig much much deeper simply to last the distance.
I have never taken crack in my life & I don't agree with you.
Hagler plodded after Leonard, switching between orthodox & southpaw needlessly all night & never realliy put him under too much pressure.
The two times (rounds 9 & 12) where he had Leonard pinned, SRL was able to flurry his way out of trouble.
Marvin was woefully slow that night & that played into SRL's hand.
De La Hoya on the other hand fought avery good tactical fight, but just didn't quite have enough to overcome Floyd.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
It doesn't matter how slow Hagler was or appeared to be... What matters is that he applied effective agressiveness and was rewarded for his work, and finished much stronger down the stretch having landed the much more telling blows overall.. It's not at all the case with Oscar against Floyd.. If anything you could compare Oscars tactics moreso to Leonards than Haglers... In that he tried(another key difference) to flurry and steal rounds by being flashier, wheras Floyd was the one sitting down more on his punches and he finished much stronger.. You say it all in your last sentence as far as I'm concerned...Oscar didn't have enough to overcome Floyd.. Hagler had enough to overcome and wear out Leonard and I think he won the fight.. I could never see Oscar winning no matter how much I tried to give him close rounds etc.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
it is actually a very similar fight. One guy is being more effective and the other is throwing but not hitting. Although Hagler hit Ray more than Oscar hit Floyd. And Hagler almost had Ray out at the bell it seemed. Floyd was more effective than Ray and should have won by a bigger margin. And I think Ray beat Marvin. I think Marvin was past his prime during Leonard and could not fight effectively anymore.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
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Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
it is actually a very similar fight. One guy is being more effective and the other is throwing but not hitting. Although Hagler hit Ray more than Oscar hit Floyd. And Hagler almost had Ray out at the bell it seemed. Floyd was more effective than Ray and should have won by a bigger margin. And I think Ray beat Marvin. I think Marvin was past his prime during Leonard and could not fight effectively anymore.
Not really Oscar didn't give away first 4 rounds Hagler didn't gas in last part of fight its not same at all.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
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Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
it is actually a very similar fight. One guy is being more effective and the other is throwing but not hitting. Although Hagler hit Ray more than Oscar hit Floyd. And Hagler almost had Ray out at the bell it seemed. Floyd was more effective than Ray and should have won by a bigger margin. And I think Ray beat Marvin. I think Marvin was past his prime during Leonard and could not fight effectively anymore.
See it's this that I can't understand.... So your trying to say that Leonard was more effective, and that Hagler was throwing but not hitting ??? I mean seriously, have you watched the whole fight?? Hagler was much more effective, and landed the much better shots.. Leonard was only effective in fooling the judges with his flurries that did nothing to Hagler.. That sounds more like what Oscar did than Floyd to me...
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
The real point of this point was not to infer that the fights were similar as such, but to highlight that they were two mega hyped fights that ended with split decisions & controversy.
Leonard -v- Hagler has been debated to death for the last 20 years & we will never get all to agree.
I think the Mayweather -v- De La Hoya bout will be debated in the same way for the next 20 years & will usurp the Leonard -v- Hagler bout in that respect. :band:
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
I think they are the same in a lot of respects, and thought about this in length on the bus today.
1) Fighter coming out of what was more or less a retirement to fight the best fighter out there.
2) Hagler goes southpaw, De La Hoya stopped jabbing.
3) Stalking fighter versus a slippery fighter, defense won the fight in both cases
4) Neither were fights of the year by any means but tactically thrilling in bouts in which all 4 fighters had high spots.
Well...that's about it but I do think they are very similar and had Saddo's been around them, you would hear a lot of the same stuff you're ehearing now.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
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Originally Posted by p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntax Error
Will boxing fans be debating this one for the next 20 years?
Will ODLH fans be coming up with reasons why they think Oscar should have been given the decision in a close fight that he probably just failed to do enough in, just like Marvellous Marvin 20 years ago?
I scored the fight 115-113 in favour of Mayweather; ironically I had exactly the same score in favour of Leonard versus Hagler, although I don't believe that Marvin fought as well as Oscar did against Floyd.
Maybe that tells you something!!!! :laugh: :alcoholic:
:o :o Are you on crack?
To compare the effort of either man to that of Leonard or Hagler in their fight is absolutely assinine.. Almost as much so as it is to consider it as contraversial a decision.. Hagler was completely dominant in large parts of the fight and hurt Leonard BADLY in many instances as well as dealt a huge accumulation of damage and basically beat the life out of SRL by the end of the fight.. I will always think Hagler edged that fight out after giving away too many early rounds.. But more importantly he fought MUCH more valiantly and was FAR more effective than Oscar was against Floyd.. Hagler applied effective aggression all night long, wore his guy down and landed a lot of very hard flush shots. Oscar didn't land one thing close to any number of shots Hagler was consistently landing.. THe only thing comparable is perhaps the effort put forth by SRL and Floyd. In terms of the effort/tactics put forth by Leonard and Mayweather, there is perhaps a small likeness... THe difference is Floyd only needed to put forth the performance he did and was in control of the fight in doing so, wheras Leonard was forced to dig much much deeper simply to last the distance.
You can't compare Leonard, A GREAT, with Floyd Jr. Leonard was there to show off his great boxing skills AND he was also there to FIGHT!!! YES F-I-G-H-T. Please, let's not compare Floyd I-love-to-get-on-my-bicycle-and-throw-one-weak-ass-punch-at-a-time Mayweather! Is he a great boxer? YES, is he GREAT? Nah...needs to beat more quality opponents. Hagler and De La Hoya were there to fight and fight they did...the comparisons end there.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
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Originally Posted by amat
I think they are the same in a lot of respects, and thought about this in length on the bus today.
1) Fighter coming out of what was more or less a retirement to fight the best fighter out there.
2) Hagler goes southpaw, De La Hoya stopped jabbing.
3) Stalking fighter versus a slippery fighter, defense won the fight in both cases
4) Neither were fights of the year by any means but tactically thrilling in bouts in which all 4 fighters had high spots.
Well...that's about it but I do think they are very similar and had Saddo's been around them, you would hear a lot of the same stuff you're ehearing now.
I agree with 1, 2, and 4 but not 3. SRL did not win just by defense. He won because he was boxing smart and FIGHTING, not playing defense only. There were some hard shots landed by Sugar Ray, Floyd landed some good pussy counterpunches but nothing like what Leonard landed that day. I would have to see the fight again to make sure, but I believe Floyd landed his hardest punch at the end of the 11th.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
it is actually a very similar fight. One guy is being more effective and the other is throwing but not hitting. Although Hagler hit Ray more than Oscar hit Floyd. And Hagler almost had Ray out at the bell it seemed. Floyd was more effective than Ray and should have won by a bigger margin. And I think Ray beat Marvin. I think Marvin was past his prime during Leonard and could not fight effectively anymore.
Not really Oscar didn't give away first 4 rounds Hagler didn't gas in last part of fight its not same at all.
But Ray gave away the last 3 rounds. Although some gave Ray the 11th, I did not. but the comparisons are very strong. Hagler the stronger guy and Ray the boxer. Had Marvin been active more at the end of 86 with one more fight after Mugabi he would have won those first few rounds. He had to shake off the rust, and coming out orthodox in rounds one and two gave the momentum to Ray even after Marvin switched. The only effective fight he fought against the legends was with Hearns.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegendBoxing65
it is actually a very similar fight.  One guy is being more effective and the other is throwing but not hitting. Although Hagler hit Ray more than Oscar hit Floyd. And Hagler almost had Ray out at the bell it seemed.  Floyd was more effective than Ray and should have won by a bigger margin. And I think Ray beat Marvin.   I think Marvin was past his prime during Leonard and could not fight effectively anymore.
Not really Oscar didn't give away first 4 rounds Hagler didn't gas in last part of fight its not same at all.
But Ray gave away the last 3 rounds. Although some gave Ray the 11th, I did not.  but the comparisons are very strong. Hagler the stronger guy and Ray the boxer.  Had Marvin been active more at the end of 86 with one more fight after Mugabi he would have won those first few rounds. He had to shake off the rust, and coming out orthodox in rounds one and two gave the momentum to Ray even after Marvin switched. The only effective fight he fought against the legends was with Hearns.
Sorry but it isn't the same at all maybe same sort of styles but fight is totally different Hagler was long reigning champion at that time Oscar had not had many fights and in his last 3 fights had record of 2 wins and 2 losses Leonard threw alot more affective flurries than what Oscar done because sound they were making and they were clean punches and Leonard didn't give away last 3 rounds if i remember he won 12th round and neither Oscar or Floyd gave away first 4 rounds so it isn't same at all plus that fight was alot more closer than Oscar vs Floyd i had Floyd ahead by 3 rounds.
Re: Mayweather -v- De La Hoya: The new Leonard -v- Hagler?
I think the comparison was more the way Hagler was stronger and Ray sort of won the fight with sharper punches, yet the exact same fight is hard to figure. Maybe Meldrick Taylor vs. Julio Cesar Chavez is a better comparison. I did not make the comparison. But it is a common style.. the stronger slower guy against the fast sharper boxer.. But the styles are not exactly the same of coarse not. But there are similarities. Marvin had not fought much in 2 years since he fought Hearns. he only had one fight. Same with Oscar and Hopkins in 2 1/2 years. Hagler was stronger and he was going to use his aggression. The difference of this fight and the Hagler Leonard was that Oscar did everything correct, but Floyd was too good. Hagler not fighting southpaw the first two rounds was the deciding factor in his fight. So Hagler took Ray for granted a little. Something Oscar did not do with Floyd .
