Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Frankly.. There is no arguement to say Hatton hasnt got a claim to P4P stature if Calzaghe is considered In the P4P Rankings..
Both Undefeated..Both 40 odd/+ fights...
But yes Calzaghe is always under scrutiny for his level of opposition.. Hatton is at times.. More so for his performances against Fair competition imo
But if calzaghe is considered P4P ..Then hatton should be higher.. Because theres no arguement to say that joe has faced better opposition.. The only thing that could be brought up is Joe's long title reign..
And that to me is a con not a pro.. Joe still doesnt match up to hatton even whilst remaining a long reigning world champion..
To me it puts hatton all the higher for bieng willing to drop these titles for the sake of legacy and entertaining fights..
But.. Lets have this out in the open and see how people feel for it..
Personally.. I havent said Calzaghe is P4P.. I perhaps consider Ricky just inside the top ten perhaps just outside of it..
But if joe is universally considered a p4p contender then ricky should be more so
Lets get it on..
Remember guys im fair but im firm .. :laugh: :lickish: Lol
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
What I would say is that Hatton's big fights have all been carried out in recent fights, and before his Kostya Tzuyu fight, he had never really been in what would be considered a huge fight. Meanwhile, I reckon that Calzaghe has spread his big-name fights over his 10-year reign as WBO champion, with Eubank, Reid, Mitchell, Brewer and Lacy all at steps during his career. I also think that the length of Hatton's career at the lighter weights will naturally be shorter than Calzaghe's, both because of Hatton's size and lifestyle.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
What I would say is that Hatton's big fights have all been carried out in recent fights, and before his Kostya Tzuyu fight, he had never really been in what would be considered a huge fight. Meanwhile, I reckon that Calzaghe has spread his big-name fights over his 10-year reign as WBO champion, with Eubank, Reid, Mitchell, Brewer and Lacy all at steps during his career. I also think that the length of Hatton's career at the lighter weights will naturally be shorter than Calzaghe's, both because of Hatton's size and lifestyle.
I think the lifestyle can still be ammended..But i think hatton could well have a number of years to go..
It depends..Both have had near enough the same ammount of bouts.. Whilst hatton is much younger and got his shot alot later ' number of fights wise' .. Whilst calzaghe has had his all these years.. But not been as assertive in making his name until recent years..
I beleieve the reids mitchells and brewers of calzaghes record are those inbetween guys.. I know, you know and anyone who has ever really stepped in a ring can appreciate they are damn good fighters..
They are good..But thats the problem..Theya re only good, You can diss the urango's.. The maussa's but they were still champs and thats title fights and as good fighters as calzaghe has faced..
But Hatton has had titles to gain from these fights.. Calzaghe as a reigning champ should probably have faced more 'Tyszu's and castillo's'
And no offense to you.. Its only opinion after all.. But The Up and coming monster that is lacy ..still his biggest win as of yet.. And a past prime but always skillful and game Eubank dont match up to Kostya and Castillo imo..
And perhaps calzaghe may have undeserved problems in future fights because of the elite stages he wishes to conquer which he left it so late he isnt young, he has hand problems..
It may well all go wrong..
Ricky likes a pint.. But his commitment to training when it counts will probably carry him through
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Hatton because he has gone to USA and beat p4p great Calzaghe has beaten few good names but mostly former world champs or shot former world champs or prospect which is a shame really Calzaghe has all the talent in the world but at the moment sadly for him he isn't where he should of been and to answer your question Hatton is higher.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Ricky does the love the pint. That is why I root for him. He is a real guy. I always respect a guy that will take tough fights and is down to earth.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
I get so burnt out on this...but Joe's level of opposition is better than Ricky's. He's faced better fighters in his class & he has dominated his division & defeneded his titles much more convincingly.
I just can't understand why people can't see it.
I'm thrilled that Hatton beat Kostya...but that's all the legit comp that he has convincingly beat for me.
Joe has beaten hard fighters in their prime that people either don't know or just refuse to acknowledge.
No matter what anyone says...Lacy was a force to be reckoned with & Joe just ruined him.
Viet was & still is a hell of a fighter...losing twice to Joe & once to Inkin in the duration of his career.
Mkrtchian was a legit fighter that had lost only once & that was to Inkin...another legit challenge. Joe pretty much destroyed Mger.
Robin Reid too was a hell of a champ but Joe handled him & no one credited him for the performance.
That's just a few of the names that many pass off as nothing...but they are good fighters that are totally disrespected.
While Hatton fought spent talent for his first 30 some odd fights, then beat Kostya, then faced Maussa (laughable), & Collazo & Urango back to back & gave VERY poor accounting of himself...that's just water under the bridge.
I will say this for Ricky...he does have a shot at redemption against Castillo & much respect if he pulls out all the stops.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
I think the lifestyle can still be ammended..But i think hatton could well have a number of years to go..
It depends..Both have had near enough the same ammount of bouts.. Whilst hatton is much younger and got his shot alot later ' number of fights wise' .. Whilst calzaghe has had his all these years.. But not been as assertive in making his name until recent years..
I beleieve the reids mitchells and brewers of calzaghes record are those inbetween guys.. I know, you know and anyone who has ever really stepped in a ring can appreciate they are damn good fighters..
They are good..But thats the problem..Theya re only good, You can diss the urango's.. The maussa's but they were still champs and thats title fights and as good fighters as calzaghe has faced..
But Hatton has had titles to gain from these fights.. Calzaghe as a reigning champ should probably have faced more 'Tyszu's and castillo's'
And no offense to you.. Its only opinion after all.. But The Up and coming monster that is lacy ..still his biggest win as of yet.. And a past prime but always skillful and game Eubank dont match up to Kostya and Castillo imo..
And perhaps calzaghe may have undeserved problems in future fights because of the elite stages he wishes to conquer which he left it so late he isnt young, he has hand problems..
It may well all go wrong..
Ricky likes a pint.. But his commitment to training when it counts will probably carry him through
Cheers for the backup Wacko, but I do kind of agree with bodyheadbanger, in that Hatton's commitment to training may indeed drive him into great things, as he (hopefully) realises that the period before each fight in order to lose the weight gets so great that he lessens the weight he puts on between bouts.
Ultimately, when it comes to you, me, and Joe Schmoe having a look at the records of each fighter, and how they became (or might become) Hall of Famers, I guess it does depend on who they fight, and how the present themselves. At the end of the day, I see a potential in both for being criticised for not taking the biggest fights early enough in their career. From Hatton's perspective he had Warren protecting him, and from Calzaghe's view, he only had journeymen and kids from higher weights willing to give him a bout. And BHB, Hatton ain't produced the goods on Castillo yet. If he does, then maybe I'll accept his legit claim to be above Joe P4P, but for now, I still reckon Joe edges it. Obviously comparisons with fighters from around the world will come, and I'm not sure what to do with those, but I'll look at them by the evidence just like all else i guess.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Quote:
Originally Posted by wacko3205
I get so burnt out on this...but Joe's level of opposition is better than Ricky's. He's faced better fighters in his class & he has dominated his division & defeneded his titles much more convincingly.
I just can't understand why people can't see it.
I'm thrilled that Hatton beat Kostya...but that's all the legit comp that he has convincingly beat for me.
Joe has beaten hard fighters in their prime that people either don't know or just refuse to acknowledge.
No matter what anyone says...Lacy was a force to be reckoned with & Joe just ruined him.
Viet was & still is a hell of a fighter...losing twice to Joe & once to Inkin in the duration of his career.
Mkrtchian was a legit fighter that had lost only once & that was to Inkin...another legit challenge. Joe pretty much destroyed Mger.
Robin Reid too was a hell of a champ but Joe handled him & no one credited him for the performance.
That's just a few of the names that many pass off as nothing...but they are good fighters that are totally disrespected.
While Hatton fought spent talent for his first 30 some odd fights, then beat Kostya, then faced Maussa (laughable), & Collazo & Urango back to back & gave VERY poor accounting of himself...that's just water under the bridge.
I will say this for Ricky...he does have a shot at redemption against Castillo & much respect if he pulls out all the stops.
You make fair points wack and I myself dont discredit the fighters Joe has fought..
But i do consider them Good Not great though..
Ricky is younger, has taken a few good fights.. His last three fights have been against world champs..
Granted his performances havent been what the fans have wanted but you couldnt dispute that he got the job done.. And whilst joe has had his share or controversial decisions in his career as everybody does at some point or other..Instead of defending a title Ricky only had a title to gain, and against a better fighter imo..
So sure..Until ricky fought kostya he too wasnt exactly a world beater..Only showed potential against much the sam good competition in Vince Phillips, Ben Tackie, Eamon McGee And even whilst on that Prospect level before the real step up he stil held a wbu title and was entertaining..
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
That one name though Wacko beats any name on Calzaghes record because he was p4p great.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
That one name though Wacko beats any name on Calzaghes record because he was p4p great.
I totally TOTALLY disagree.
Kostya was never a P4P great in my opinion...sorry...but he wasn't.
In the end I always thought Kostya was good...but not a great as someone else stated about Joe's opposition.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
At the end of the day Hatton is better as why's calzaghe fighting contenders and not IBF champs like hatton's fighting in Urango???
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Calzaghe is better than hatton in ever single way except for body punching (which hatton doesn't do as much now)
We can all argue who fought whom and when and how it went - but p4p isn't about who you have fought its about being weightless and examining the boxers based on their attributes, beating big names only helps prove what others are saying.
Leftylee - you wanna write that again coz its a bit confusing? Calzaghe was the IBF SMW champ but got stripped for refusing to face the waste of time that was robert stigler... hatton went and took on urango (who is a club fighter) knowing full well he would have to face a mandatory and would not be allowed to defend it agasint castillo so there for being stripped. Urango was far form the best LW, shit junior witter is rated higher than him and would be a bigger pay day for hatton too.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Calzaghe is better than hatton in ever single way except for body punching (which hatton doesn't do as much now)
We can all argue who fought whom and when and how it went - but p4p isn't about who you have fought its about being weightless and examining the boxers based on their attributes, beating big names only helps prove what others are saying.
Leftylee - you wanna write that again coz its a bit confusing? Calzaghe was the IBF SMW champ but got stripped for refusing to face the waste of time that was robert stigler... hatton went and took on urango (who is a club fighter) knowing full well he would have to face a mandatory and would not be allowed to defend it agasint castillo so there for being stripped. Urango was far form the best LW, shit junior witter is rated higher than him and would be a bigger pay day for hatton too.
Thats ridiculous.. Urango is a club fighter..
He is as good as most of the contenders Joe has faced and Ricky actually had something to gain from that fight..
And what do you mean he knew he would have to face a mandatory.. Thats not true atall.. Hatton is taking the right fights and Joe is still having trouble getting them
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Calzaghe is better than hatton in ever single way except for body punching (which hatton doesn't do as much now)
We can all argue who fought whom and when and how it went - but p4p isn't about who you have fought its about being weightless and examining the boxers based on their attributes, beating big names only helps prove what others are saying.
Leftylee - you wanna write that again coz its a bit confusing? Calzaghe was the IBF SMW champ but got stripped for refusing to face the waste of time that was robert stigler... hatton went and took on urango (who is a club fighter) knowing full well he would have to face a mandatory and would not be allowed to defend it agasint castillo so there for being stripped. Urango was far form the best LW, S*** junior witter is rated higher than him and would be a bigger pay day for hatton too.
Thats ridiculous.. Urango is a club fighter..
He is as good as most of the contenders Joe has faced and Ricky actually had something to gain from that fight..
And what do you mean he knew he would have to face a mandatory.. Thats not true atall.. Hatton is taking the right fights and Joe is still having trouble getting them
right fights? 2 years ago there would of been a million and one threads every month talking about hatton v castillo coz it would of had fireworks written all over it... hardly anyone has botherd to talk about it since its been anounced... why? look at what castillo and hatotn both did in thier last fight! castillo was freaking lucky to get the win - he is past it and every body knows it, just no one is willing to admit it yet until the fight is over with.
Apart form that hatton JUSt got past collazo, and beat maussa...
Now whislt hatton is looking total crap in his fights, pissing people off and being dropped out of p4p rankings all over the wolrd, Calzaghe is climing his and doing his job at SMW... lets face it tito, calzaghe has whipped every person put in front of him at the SMW, and with the recent info about kessler and palle coming to light, its not hard to se why that fight has not happend.
Re: Interesting topic..Hatton/Calzaghe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preme
Calzaghe is better than hatton in ever single way except for body punching (which hatton doesn't do as much now)
We can all argue who fought whom and when and how it went - but p4p isn't about who you have fought its about being weightless and examining the boxers based on their attributes, beating big names only helps prove what others are saying.
Leftylee - you wanna write that again coz its a bit confusing? Calzaghe was the IBF SMW champ but got stripped for refusing to face the waste of time that was robert stigler... hatton went and took on urango (who is a club fighter) knowing full well he would have to face a mandatory and would not be allowed to defend it agasint castillo so there for being stripped. Urango was far form the best LW, S*** junior witter is rated higher than him and would be a bigger pay day for hatton too.
Thats ridiculous.. Urango is a club fighter..
He is as good as most of the contenders Joe has faced and Ricky actually had something to gain from that fight..
And what do you mean he knew he would have to face a mandatory.. Thats not true atall.. Hatton is taking the right fights and Joe is still having trouble getting them
right fights? 2 years ago there would of been a million and one threads every month talking about hatton v castillo coz it would of had fireworks written all over it... hardly anyone has botherd to talk about it since its been anounced... why? look at what castillo and hatotn both did in thier last fight! castillo was freaking lucky to get the win - he is past it and every body knows it, just no one is willing to admit it yet until the fight is over with.
Apart form that hatton JUSt got past collazo, and beat maussa...
Now whislt hatton is looking total crap in his fights, pissing people off and being dropped out of p4p rankings all over the wolrd, Calzaghe is climing his and doing his job at SMW... lets face it tito, calzaghe has whipped every person put in front of him at the SMW, and with the recent info about kessler and palle coming to light, its not hard to se why that fight has not happend.
If Calzaghe truely wanted P4P Stardom he could have worked alot harder to get it..
The fights with taylor hopkins wright could have happened.. The known names he could have beat..Mundine, alan green etc.. Superfights and unifications with Kessler.. A step up to light heavyweight..
Its been there..
Hatton has not looked crap.. Hatton just wasnt particularly exciting and has had his share of troubles..
So he looked tired late against urango..But put a clinic on him..
Hatton looked snappy for the most part against collazo.. And frankly i rank collazo higher then most of the fighters joe has defended against..
Maussa..well.. theres been plenty of maussa's on joes record..But hatton had a title unification on the line and had something to gain.. Having been champ for so long and fighting the same sort of guys just defending rather then gaining anything much is less of a feat imo..
And castillo is not finished imo.. I mean how do you manage to come to this conclusion..
He had a fight with an undefeated prospect which was a fair tune up fight for the weight..
He had a shit time with him and moved on..Like its unnatural for a fighter to look bad in his first fight at a new weight.. No..Hatton was bad when he moved up too..
Theres really nothing else to be said on the subject..Whether you disagree or not we will only know come hatton - castillo..
Win loose or draw with castillo will will have the answer..But frankly.. Look out for a barrera- morales 1
performance from castillo..Barrera came back after two losses to junior jones to have a war with morales and you knew he was back even though he didnt get the win..
