Is Evander Holyfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
Ok so in the light of Evander's current rebirth is he the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
I'd say that if he wins another title he surely must be, as that would make him a 5 time world heavyweight champion equalling the great Ray Robinson's middleweight record.
He surely has to rank abover Tyson seeing as he destroyed him twice, once physical and the second time mentally. He's had greater longevity and fought and beat more credible opponents than Tyson.
Lennox Lewis is a difficult one. Widely regarded as the undisputed champion of the past 10/15 years Lewis did beat Holyfield twice (we all know he won the first fight) BUT he didn't fight anywhere near the level of competion that Evander has fought.
Evander has fought a whose who of the greatest fighters of modern times, Mike Tyson twice, Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Riddick Bowe etc and with the expection of Lewis has wins over them all. I know a few of these guys didn't want to fight Lewis but Holyfield's record has bigger names on it imo.
George Foreman is a living legend and one of the greatest of all time but would Holyfield winning a 5th title eclipse Foreman's comeback. Considering Hoylfield would be older than George and has comeback from seeming impossible odds I'd say yes again.
That leaves us with Larry Holmes and I'll admit here I'm not the best person to discuss as I've seen very few of his fights. He reigned for longer than any other modern champion and he continued to remain a force for years past his prime but he suffered imo for having his prime during a weaker era than Holyfield.
What do you guys think, where does Evander rate amongst the other greats?
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
Evander is second. Lennox is number one. In my opinion Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes. Tyson was the main for for quite sometime but mostly in his younger days. I am going with longevity.
Evander is what every heavyweight should be though. Heart and dedication wise. He has great skills or had I should say. With Evander Holyfield his accomplishments speak for themselves
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
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Originally Posted by Punching Princess
Evander is second. Lennox is number one. In my opinion Lennox Lewis is the best heavyweight since Larry Holmes. Tyson was the main for for quite sometime but mostly in his younger days. I am going with longevity.
Evander is what every heavyweight should be though. Heart and dedication wise. He has great skills or had I should say. With Evander Holyfield his accomplishments speak for themselves
Thanks for your opinion princess :coolclick: and remember to register your vote on the poll at the top. :)
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
I remember when Evander stopped Michael dokes in a brutal paced fight in 1989, knocked-down Ray Mercer with his face covered in blood ( the first to do so), when he came unbelievably from being totally dismissed by the HBO crew in 1995, dropped Bowe with a monster left hook and ran courageously into a right hand tryin to stop Big Daddy or when he awaited cool and calm for intimidating Mike Tyson during the play of the National Anthem back in 1996 - THIS GUY IS JUST AMAZING, He's Great no doubt, probably the Biggest Hearted Heavyweight since Ali yes, 44 years old and with that physic, discipline and conduct, still fighting to get a title shot? I Tell you what!!!
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.
Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.
Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?
There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.
I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.
Really who did he beat?
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.
Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.
Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?
There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.
I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.
Really who did he beat?
Ken Norton
Gerry Cooney
Earnie Shavers
Tim Witherspoon
Im not saying his era was greatest but Joe Louis era was no better and everyone considers him top 3 of all time and weak era or not Holmes still dominated his era and if Holmes would of been in Holyfields era i think he would of beaten most because Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield when Holmes was 40+ i think Holmes would beat Lewis Holyfield Tyson the shot version and Bowe maybe aswell because Bowe was never that good when someone fought him on outside remember his gift decision against past it Tony Tubbs.
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.
Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.
Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?
There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.
I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.
Really who did he beat?
Ken Norton
Gerry Cooney
Earnie Shavers
Tim Witherspoon
Im not saying his era was greatest but Joe Louis era was no better and everyone considers him top 3 of all time and weak era or not Holmes still dominated his era and if Holmes would of been in Holyfields era i think he would of beaten most because Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield when Holmes was 40+ i think Holmes would beat Lewis Holyfield Tyson the shot version and Bowe maybe aswell because Bowe was never that good when someone fought him on outside remember his gift decision against past it Tony Tubbs.
Personally I think Joe Louis is the most overratted heavyweight of all time. Fair enough he beat everybody but look at who he almost lost to, 175 lber Billy Conn and the 50's Butterbean Two Ton Gallento.
The names you mentioned just arn't even top 30 heavies of all time save maybe Norton.
I like Holmes but he never fought anybody special. And losing twice to a man who got blitzed by Tyson doesn't do his legacy much good either.
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.
Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.
Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?
There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.
I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.
Really who did he beat?
Ken Norton
Gerry Cooney
Earnie Shavers
Tim Witherspoon
Im not saying his era was greatest but Joe Louis era was no better and everyone considers him top 3 of all time and weak era or not Holmes still dominated his era and if Holmes would of been in Holyfields era i think he would of beaten most because Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield when Holmes was 40+ i think Holmes would beat Lewis Holyfield Tyson the shot version and Bowe maybe aswell because Bowe was never that good when someone fought him on outside remember his gift decision against past it Tony Tubbs.
Personally I think Joe Louis is the most overratted heavyweight of all time. Fair enough he beat everybody but look at who he almost lost to, 175 lber Billy Conn and the 50's Butterbean Two Ton Gallento.
The names you mentioned just arn't even top 30 heavies of all time save maybe Norton.
I like Holmes but he never fought anybody special.
And losing twice to a man who got blitzed by Tyson doesn't do his legacy much good either.
Holmes was past it then and still should of got decision in first fight and 2nd fight was just a robbery and i have never seen anyone on this forum or people i've met that thinks Spinks won the 2nd fight if you haven't ever watched it i suggest you go watch it and tell me Spinks should of won the 2nd fight ??
And also i would like to say Bilbo is that most Heavyweights never beat someone special or great in there prime because most of the time they never had a great in there era in first place or the great is way past his sell by date except Ali name me another Heavyweight that beat a great in his prime ??
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
Lets not forget the guys everyone thought where very good at the time
Trever Berbick,Renaldo Snipes,Marvis Frazier(only two losses of his career were Homes/Tyson),James Bonecrusher Smith,and Carl The Truth Williams
And before we get too out of hand with the Holyfield stuff,yeah nice win,but that WAS a 41 year old Lou Savarese in there,who promptly retired right after the fight
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
No he isn't Holmes is he made 20 defences dominated his era Holyfield has been in exciting fights but he never really did dominate his era.
Is it fair to say though that Holmes was 'fortunate' if thats the right word to have fought in a weaker era.
Would he have reigned for so long had he a prime Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis and Bowe to contend with?
There arn't any elite fighter names on his record after all, unless you count Parkinsons ravaged Ali.
I see nobody on Holmes record that Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield wouldn't have beaten just as impressively.
Really who did he beat?
Ken Norton
Gerry Cooney
Earnie Shavers
Tim Witherspoon
Im not saying his era was greatest but Joe Louis era was no better and everyone considers him top 3 of all time and weak era or not Holmes still dominated his era and if Holmes would of been in Holyfields era i think he would of beaten most because Holmes won 5 rounds against prime Holyfield when Holmes was 40+ i think Holmes would beat Lewis Holyfield Tyson the shot version and Bowe maybe aswell because Bowe was never that good when someone fought him on outside remember his gift decision against past it Tony Tubbs.
Personally I think Joe Louis is the most overratted heavyweight of all time. Fair enough he beat everybody but look at who he almost lost to, 175 lber Billy Conn and the 50's Butterbean Two Ton Gallento.
The names you mentioned just arn't even top 30 heavies of all time save maybe Norton.
I like Holmes but he never fought anybody special.
And losing twice to a man who got blitzed by Tyson doesn't do his legacy much good either.
Holmes was past it then and still should of got decision in first fight and 2nd fight was just a robbery and i have never seen anyone on this forum or people i've met that thinks Spinks won the 2nd fight if you haven't ever watched it i suggest you go watch it and tell me Spinks should of won the 2nd fight ??
Nah I agree he didn't lose the second fight. You make good points I'm just saying that Holme's resume isn't stacked with all time greats like Holyfields is.
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Lets not forget the guys everyone thought where very good at the time
Trever Berbick,Renaldo Snipes,Marvis Frazier(only two losses of his career were Homes/Tyson),James Bonecrusher Smith,and Carl The Truth Williams
And before we get too out of hand with the Holyfield stuff,yeah nice win,but that WAS a 41 year old Lou Savarese in there,who promptly retired right after the fight
Im big fan of Holmes but Smith wasn't regarded as good he only got a shot at the title by koing Frank Bruno in last round when he had lost near enough every round and Frazier was never considered good and Berbick wasn't a top contender either but others i agree with they were considered top contenders.
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Lets not forget the guys everyone thought where very good at the time
Trever Berbick,Renaldo Snipes,Marvis Frazier(only two losses of his career were Homes/Tyson),James Bonecrusher Smith,and Carl The Truth Williams
And before we get too out of hand with the Holyfield stuff,yeah nice win,but that WAS a 41 year old Lou Savarese in there,who promptly retired right after the fight
Im big fan of Holmes but Smith wasn't regarded as good he only got a shot at the title by koing Frank in last round when he had lost near enough every round and Frazier was never considered good and Berbick wasn't a top contender either but others i agree with they were considered top contenders.
Marvis did beat Bugner,Tillis,and Smith,and like I said,his only two losses were to prime Tyson and prime Holmes
Oh yeah Leroy Jones should be on the list,only loss was Holmes
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
Lewis and Holmes were both better heavyweights than Holyfield. You could make a good argument that Holyfield is better than both PFP because of his work at crusierweight.
Re: Is Envander Hoylfield the greatest heavyweight since Ali?
Since Holmes I think he is the best, but I could see Lennox taking that place too. Like Sweet Pea said I think p4p he was better than Lennox for sure.
