Statistical look at the p4p list
As we all know, the p4p list is one of the most often-debated and subjective things in boxing, and everyone has their own slant on what the p4p list ought to look like. Anyhow, I thought it'd be an interesting exercise to have a look at a few of the statistics of the top 10 fighters p4p according to all of the wonderful voters that put together the latest Saddoboxing p4p list a couple of months ago.
The first thing that makes a p4p great has to be the quality of opposition he has faced, and while records can be boosted etc to make anything look good, but basically, I've calculated what the average record of the fighters that each of the top 10 fighters have faced, and this time ranked them by who's opponents have the highest wins.
Average Record of Opponents Faced: (W-L-D)
Floyd Mayweather Jr – (27.4 – 4.7 – 0.9)
Shane Mosley – (24.1 – 5.2 – 0.7)
Bernard Hopkins – (23.5 – 5 – 0.5)
Miguel Cotto – (22.8 – 4.6 – 0.5)
Juan Manuel Marquez – (22 – 5.2 – 1)
Manny Pacquiao- (21.6 – 4.6 – 1.1)
Jermain Taylor – (21.6 – 3.8 – 0.9)
Joe Calzaghe – (20.8 – 6.6 – 0.6)
Ronald Winky Wright – (17.1 – 5.9 – 0.8)
Rafael Marquez – (15.9 – 5.4 – 1)
Figures are calculated to one decimal point, and one of the things to be noticed from all the figures I looked at were that Floyd Mayweather ranked incredibly highly on most of them. Also, one of the people most often criticised for facing opponents who were not up to scratch, Joe Calzaghe, did rank quite lowly, and his opponents had the highest average of defeats out of the top 10. But of course, there is more to a record than wins, so here's the wins divided by defeats of their opponents, so the higher the number, the better win/defeat ratio of their opponents.
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 5.76
Jermain Taylor – 5.62
Miguel Cotto – 4.92
Manny Pacquiao – 4.70
Bernard Hopkins – 4.67
Shane Mosley – 4.59
Juan Manuel Marquez – 4.15
Joe Calzaghe – 3.15
Rafael Marquez – 2.93
Ronald Winky Wright – 2.89
The top three all rank among the fighters who have had the least number of fights among the p4p top 10 of saddos, and once again Floyd does fantastically well. Taylor also benefitted from fighting against more experienced opponents earlier in his career, and this also was one of the best areas for Manny Pacquiao. Calzaghe, again failing to do well, and with him Marquez and Wright ranking in the bottom three both times in terms of opponents. The rest of the stats are a little more subjective, and are contributing factors to p4p status. First up here's the win percentage:
Win Percentage:
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 100%
Joe Calzaghe – 100%
Miguel Cotto – 100%
Jermain Taylor - 96%
Ronald Winky Wright – 92%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 92%
Rafael Marquez – 92%
Bernard Hopkins – 90%
Manny Pacquiao – 89%
Shane Mosley – 89%
Although there is obviously the argument that those who have the lower win percentages have been in more battles, and have really gone into the trenhes, and been involved with more rivalries. Next up here's the number of title bouts each has been involved in: (Big 4 belts only)
Title Bouts Involved In:
Bernard Hopkins – 25
Joe Calzaghe – 21
Shane Mosley – 18
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 17
Ronald Winky Wright – 16
Juan Manuel Marquez – 10
Miguel Cotto – 10
Manny Pacquiao - 9
Rafael Marquez – 9
Jermain Taylor – 5
And finally the KO percentage (of wins) of each fighter:
Rafael Marquez – 89%
Shane Mosley – 84%
Miguel Cotto – 83%
Manny Pacquiao – 79%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 74%
Joe Calzaghe – 74%
Bernard Hopkins – 68%
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 63%
Jermain Taylor - 63%
Ronald Winky Wright – 49%
And ultimately, here are my conclusions:
1) Floyd Mayweather's p4p status would seem to be deserved based on statistical analysis.
2) KO Percentage has very little to do with p4p greatness.
3) Jermain Taylor did quite a bit better than I expected him too.
4) Shane Mosley probably deserves a better p4p ranking.
5) Joe Calzaghe needs some big fights in his last few to cement p4p status.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
As we all know, the p4p list is one of the most often-debated and subjective things in boxing, and everyone has their own slant on what the p4p list ought to look like. Anyhow, I thought it'd be an interesting exercise to have a look at a few of the statistics of the top 10 fighters p4p according to all of the wonderful voters that put together the latest Saddoboxing p4p list a couple of months ago.
The first thing that makes a p4p great has to be the quality of opposition he has faced, and while records can be boosted etc to make anything look good, but basically, I've calculated what the average record of the fighters that each of the top 10 fighters have faced, and this time ranked them by who's opponents have the highest wins.
Average Record of Opponents Faced: (W-L-D)
Floyd Mayweather Jr – (27.4 – 4.7 – 0.9)
Shane Mosley – (24.1 – 5.2 – 0.7)
Bernard Hopkins – (23.5 – 5 – 0.5)
Miguel Cotto – (22.8 – 4.6 – 0.5)
Juan Manuel Marquez – (22 – 5.2 – 1)
Manny Pacquiao- (21.6 – 4.6 – 1.1)
Jermain Taylor – (21.6 – 3.8 – 0.9)
Joe Calzaghe – (20.8 – 6.6 – 0.6)
Ronald Winky Wright – (17.1 – 5.9 – 0.8)
Rafael Marquez – (15.9 – 5.4 – 1)
Figures are calculated to one decimal point, and one of the things to be noticed from all the figures I looked at were that Floyd Mayweather ranked incredibly highly on most of them. Also, one of the people most often criticised for facing opponents who were not up to scratch, Joe Calzaghe, did rank quite lowly, and his opponents had the highest average of defeats out of the top 10. But of course, there is more to a record than wins, so here's the wins divided by defeats of their opponents, so the higher the number, the better win/defeat ratio of their opponents.
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 5.76
Jermain Taylor – 5.62
Miguel Cotto – 4.92
Manny Pacquiao – 4.70
Bernard Hopkins – 4.67
Shane Mosley – 4.59
Juan Manuel Marquez – 4.15
Joe Calzaghe – 3.15
Rafael Marquez – 2.93
Ronald Winky Wright – 2.89
The top three all rank among the fighters who have had the least number of fights among the p4p top 10 of saddos, and once again Floyd does fantastically well. Taylor also benefitted from fighting against more experienced opponents earlier in his career, and this also was one of the best areas for Manny Pacquiao. Calzaghe, again failing to do well, and with him Marquez and Wright ranking in the bottom three both times in terms of opponents. The rest of the stats are a little more subjective, and are contributing factors to p4p status. First up here's the win percentage:
Win Percentage:
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 100%
Joe Calzaghe – 100%
Miguel Cotto – 100%
Jermain Taylor - 96%
Ronald Winky Wright – 92%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 92%
Rafael Marquez – 92%
Bernard Hopkins – 90%
Manny Pacquiao – 89%
Shane Mosley – 89%
Although there is obviously the argument that those who have the lower win percentages have been in more battles, and have really gone into the trenhes, and been involved with more rivalries. Next up here's the number of title bouts each has been involved in: (Big 4 belts only)
Title Bouts Involved In:
Bernard Hopkins – 25
Joe Calzaghe – 21
Shane Mosley – 18
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 17
Ronald Winky Wright – 16
Juan Manuel Marquez – 10
Miguel Cotto – 10
Manny Pacquiao - 9
Rafael Marquez – 9
Jermain Taylor – 5
And finally the KO percentage (of wins) of each fighter:
Rafael Marquez – 89%
Shane Mosley – 84%
Miguel Cotto – 83%
Manny Pacquiao – 79%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 74%
Joe Calzaghe – 74%
Bernard Hopkins – 68%
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 63%
Jermain Taylor - 63%
Ronald Winky Wright – 49%
And ultimately, here are my conclusions:
1) Floyd Mayweather's p4p status would seem to be deserved based on statistical analysis.
2) KO Percentage has very little to do with p4p greatness.
3) Jermain Taylor did quite a bit better than I expected him too.
4) Shane Mosley probably deserves a better p4p ranking.
5) Joe Calzaghe needs some big fights in his last few to cement p4p status.
You should have submitted this for the front page competition. :coolclick:
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
I found that well interesting thanks alot if I could CC you I would!!
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
This is a good analysis. If I were you I would take it a step further. Sometimes numbers don't mean much. There are some extremely over protected fighters out there with great records filled with nobodies. I mean look at Valuev.
How about a poll of how many current and former champions each has faced.
An interesting stat would be the KO% of the people they have fought. Just too see how dangerous these opponents really were.
Titles in multiple weight classes should also be a big factor.
Overall, great post and CC for good idea.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
As we all know, the p4p list is one of the most often-debated and subjective things in boxing, and everyone has their own slant on what the p4p list ought to look like. Anyhow, I thought it'd be an interesting exercise to have a look at a few of the statistics of the top 10 fighters p4p according to all of the wonderful voters that put together the latest Saddoboxing p4p list a couple of months ago.
The first thing that makes a p4p great has to be the quality of opposition he has faced, and while records can be boosted etc to make anything look good, but basically, I've calculated what the average record of the fighters that each of the top 10 fighters have faced, and this time ranked them by who's opponents have the highest wins.
Average Record of Opponents Faced: (W-L-D)
Floyd Mayweather Jr – (27.4 – 4.7 – 0.9)
Shane Mosley – (24.1 – 5.2 – 0.7)
Bernard Hopkins – (23.5 – 5 – 0.5)
Miguel Cotto – (22.8 – 4.6 – 0.5)
Juan Manuel Marquez – (22 – 5.2 – 1)
Manny Pacquiao- (21.6 – 4.6 – 1.1)
Jermain Taylor – (21.6 – 3.8 – 0.9)
Joe Calzaghe – (20.8 – 6.6 – 0.6)
Ronald Winky Wright – (17.1 – 5.9 – 0.8)
Rafael Marquez – (15.9 – 5.4 – 1)
Figures are calculated to one decimal point, and one of the things to be noticed from all the figures I looked at were that Floyd Mayweather ranked incredibly highly on most of them. Also, one of the people most often criticised for facing opponents who were not up to scratch, Joe Calzaghe, did rank quite lowly, and his opponents had the highest average of defeats out of the top 10. But of course, there is more to a record than wins, so here's the wins divided by defeats of their opponents, so the higher the number, the better win/defeat ratio of their opponents.
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 5.76
Jermain Taylor – 5.62
Miguel Cotto – 4.92
Manny Pacquiao – 4.70
Bernard Hopkins – 4.67
Shane Mosley – 4.59
Juan Manuel Marquez – 4.15
Joe Calzaghe – 3.15
Rafael Marquez – 2.93
Ronald Winky Wright – 2.89
The top three all rank among the fighters who have had the least number of fights among the p4p top 10 of saddos, and once again Floyd does fantastically well. Taylor also benefitted from fighting against more experienced opponents earlier in his career, and this also was one of the best areas for Manny Pacquiao. Calzaghe, again failing to do well, and with him Marquez and Wright ranking in the bottom three both times in terms of opponents. The rest of the stats are a little more subjective, and are contributing factors to p4p status. First up here's the win percentage:
Win Percentage:
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 100%
Joe Calzaghe – 100%
Miguel Cotto – 100%
Jermain Taylor - 96%
Ronald Winky Wright – 92%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 92%
Rafael Marquez – 92%
Bernard Hopkins – 90%
Manny Pacquiao – 89%
Shane Mosley – 89%
Although there is obviously the argument that those who have the lower win percentages have been in more battles, and have really gone into the trenhes, and been involved with more rivalries. Next up here's the number of title bouts each has been involved in: (Big 4 belts only)
Title Bouts Involved In:
Bernard Hopkins – 25
Joe Calzaghe – 21
Shane Mosley – 18
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 17
Ronald Winky Wright – 16
Juan Manuel Marquez – 10
Miguel Cotto – 10
Manny Pacquiao - 9
Rafael Marquez – 9
Jermain Taylor – 5
And finally the KO percentage (of wins) of each fighter:
Rafael Marquez – 89%
Shane Mosley – 84%
Miguel Cotto – 83%
Manny Pacquiao – 79%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 74%
Joe Calzaghe – 74%
Bernard Hopkins – 68%
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 63%
Jermain Taylor - 63%
Ronald Winky Wright – 49%
And ultimately, here are my conclusions:
1) Floyd Mayweather's p4p status would seem to be deserved based on statistical analysis.
2) KO Percentage has very little to do with p4p greatness.
3) Jermain Taylor did quite a bit better than I expected him too.
4) Shane Mosley probably deserves a better p4p ranking.
5) Joe Calzaghe needs some big fights in his last few to cement p4p status.
Damn Rhun, slow day at the office?
this is excellent work mate, I would hire you. (although I couldn't guarantee as much holiday as you get now).
Can you do me one little favor though, something I think would be a good statistic to add is weight classes that each guy has fought for a title in.....That seems to have a lot of relevance in my estimation.
My magic 8-ball says that there are many CC's for you in the near future........
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
That was some great stuff CC Rhun!!
I gotta ask though. You 1st set of stats... Were they based against the fighters opponents current record, as it stands now? Or the fighters record at the time of fighting the case studies in question?
Did that make any sense at all? if it did, CC in 24 ::** ;D
Oh yeah, i almost forgot, it would be very interesting to see what a ''win% by years or rounds boxed'' study looked like ;)
But anyway, im only rabbiting on beacuse you've got me brain ticking over at 19.00 in the evening!!
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
:coolclick: Great stuff rhun you really suprised me being but a poor peasant lad from the Welsh valleys and all.
Some interesting stuff there for sure :)
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Hey what happen to Ricky Hatton?
CC BTW for the numbers.
Great Job!
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Thanks for the props folks, and to answer your question Greg....indeed it was a slow day at the office. ;)
Basically, I admit that I did have a lot more stats in mind to bring together, but I ran out of patience and the girls in accounts were yelling at me for stealing a calculator.
As for the questions :- the first set of stats were based on the opponents record at the time of fighting, as that is how boxrec lists them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
This is a good analysis. If I were you I would take it a step further. Sometimes numbers don't mean much. There are some extremely over protected fighters out there with great records filled with nobodies. I mean look at Valuev.
How about a poll of how many current and former champions each has faced.
An interesting stat would be the KO% of the people they have fought. Just too see how dangerous these opponents really were.
Titles in multiple weight classes should also be a big factor.
Overall, great post and CC for good idea.
I agree that you can make numbers say anything you want, but I'm yet to find a set of stats that puts Joe Calzaghe above everyone else in the p4p list! ;) Weight classes is right to have a look at, cause that is an important one, and I imagine would make Mayweather look even better. I'll try and do it next Tuesday afternoon, as those are the quietest times of every week.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
Thanks for the props folks, and to answer your question Greg....indeed it was a slow day at the office. ;)
Basically, I admit that I did have a lot more stats in mind to bring together, but I ran out of patience and the girls in accounts were yelling at me for stealing a calculator.
As for the questions :- the first set of stats were based on the opponents record at the time of fighting, as that is how boxrec lists them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan
This is a good analysis. If I were you I would take it a step further. Sometimes numbers don't mean much. There are some extremely over protected fighters out there with great records filled with nobodies. I mean look at Valuev.
How about a poll of how many current and former champions each has faced.
An interesting stat would be the KO% of the people they have fought. Just too see how dangerous these opponents really were.
Titles in multiple weight classes should also be a big factor.
Overall, great post and CC for good idea.
I agree that you can make numbers say anything you want, but I'm yet to find a set of stats that puts Joe Calzaghe above everyone else in the p4p list! ;) Weight classes is right to have a look at, cause that is an important one, and I imagine would make Mayweather look even better. I'll try and do it next Tuesday afternoon, as those are the quietest times of every week.
I'm sure if you rate people according to number of world title defenses in their home town then Calzaghe will top any all time list. ;)
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Quote:
Originally Posted by superheavyrhun
As we all know, the p4p list is one of the most often-debated and subjective things in boxing, and everyone has their own slant on what the p4p list ought to look like. Anyhow, I thought it'd be an interesting exercise to have a look at a few of the statistics of the top 10 fighters p4p according to all of the wonderful voters that put together the latest Saddoboxing p4p list a couple of months ago.
The first thing that makes a p4p great has to be the quality of opposition he has faced, and while records can be boosted etc to make anything look good, but basically, I've calculated what the average record of the fighters that each of the top 10 fighters have faced, and this time ranked them by who's opponents have the highest wins.
Average Record of Opponents Faced: (W-L-D)
Floyd Mayweather Jr – (27.4 – 4.7 – 0.9)
Shane Mosley – (24.1 – 5.2 – 0.7)
Bernard Hopkins – (23.5 – 5 – 0.5)
Miguel Cotto – (22.8 – 4.6 – 0.5)
Juan Manuel Marquez – (22 – 5.2 – 1)
Manny Pacquiao- (21.6 – 4.6 – 1.1)
Jermain Taylor – (21.6 – 3.8 – 0.9)
Joe Calzaghe – (20.8 – 6.6 – 0.6)
Ronald Winky Wright – (17.1 – 5.9 – 0.8)
Rafael Marquez – (15.9 – 5.4 – 1)
Figures are calculated to one decimal point, and one of the things to be noticed from all the figures I looked at were that Floyd Mayweather ranked incredibly highly on most of them. Also, one of the people most often criticised for facing opponents who were not up to scratch, Joe Calzaghe, did rank quite lowly, and his opponents had the highest average of defeats out of the top 10. But of course, there is more to a record than wins, so here's the wins divided by defeats of their opponents, so the higher the number, the better win/defeat ratio of their opponents.
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 5.76
Jermain Taylor – 5.62
Miguel Cotto – 4.92
Manny Pacquiao – 4.70
Bernard Hopkins – 4.67
Shane Mosley – 4.59
Juan Manuel Marquez – 4.15
Joe Calzaghe – 3.15
Rafael Marquez – 2.93
Ronald Winky Wright – 2.89
The top three all rank among the fighters who have had the least number of fights among the p4p top 10 of saddos, and once again Floyd does fantastically well. Taylor also benefitted from fighting against more experienced opponents earlier in his career, and this also was one of the best areas for Manny Pacquiao. Calzaghe, again failing to do well, and with him Marquez and Wright ranking in the bottom three both times in terms of opponents. The rest of the stats are a little more subjective, and are contributing factors to p4p status. First up here's the win percentage:
Win Percentage:
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 100%
Joe Calzaghe – 100%
Miguel Cotto – 100%
Jermain Taylor - 96%
Ronald Winky Wright – 92%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 92%
Rafael Marquez – 92%
Bernard Hopkins – 90%
Manny Pacquiao – 89%
Shane Mosley – 89%
Although there is obviously the argument that those who have the lower win percentages have been in more battles, and have really gone into the trenhes, and been involved with more rivalries. Next up here's the number of title bouts each has been involved in: (Big 4 belts only)
Title Bouts Involved In:
Bernard Hopkins – 25
Joe Calzaghe – 21
Shane Mosley – 18
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 17
Ronald Winky Wright – 16
Juan Manuel Marquez – 10
Miguel Cotto – 10
Manny Pacquiao - 9
Rafael Marquez – 9
Jermain Taylor – 5
And finally the KO percentage (of wins) of each fighter:
Rafael Marquez – 89%
Shane Mosley – 84%
Miguel Cotto – 83%
Manny Pacquiao – 79%
Juan Manuel Marquez – 74%
Joe Calzaghe – 74%
Bernard Hopkins – 68%
Floyd Mayweather Jr – 63%
Jermain Taylor - 63%
Ronald Winky Wright – 49%
And ultimately, here are my conclusions:
1) Floyd Mayweather's p4p status would seem to be deserved based on statistical analysis.
2) KO Percentage has very little to do with p4p greatness.
3) Jermain Taylor did quite a bit better than I expected him too.
4) Shane Mosley probably deserves a better p4p ranking.
5) Joe Calzaghe needs some big fights in his last few to cement p4p status.
Great job mate CC very good analysis. Must have took you a good while much appreciated!
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Great work!, very interesting.
If the data is easily available it would also be interesting to add the average or mode age of their opponents. I think with that info you could see for example if a boxer fought older fighters who may have had many wins but were well past their prime and so possibly the many wins were less meaningful at the time of the fight.
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
Unfortunately Danny_G, Ricky Hatton was not in the top 10 p4p fighters as of the most recent poll held by Saddoboxing, so he was not considered.
And thanks to Greg aka Killersheep, here are the stats on who has won titles in different weight divisions...:
Titles won in different weight classes (Big 4 only)
Mayweather - 5
Pacquiao - 4
Mosley - 3
Cotto - 2
Juan Manuel Marquez - 2
Rafa Marquez - 2
Winky Wright - 2
Hopkins - 1
Taylor - 1
Calzaghe - 1
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
CC#551 superheavyrun whoa! nice post...
Reminds me of the post I did years ago where I broke down the champions (Main 4) by country ...
Not sure if that threa still exsists...
It took me a while to do so I know what you wen't through....
Good work and is posts like this that I really enjoy. 8)
Job well done.... :appl:
Re: Statistical look at the p4p list
That's a lot of work. I'm not even going to check it. haha
I don't think it'd be worth it. Boxing is not about statistics. It's about the heart.
hahaha :D
I never want to reduce anything complex, subtle, ..... into stats.
And if I do, it won't be that simple. I hate it when HBO does it, so I don't look at them.
You know.... when Lampley says something like total jab percentages... what?!?
I just watched the fight, not the percentages. But sometimes they are nice to know, but not follow.
cc for the work and the results bud.
