How Great was The Marvellous Marvin Hagler..

How Great was was Marvin Hagler, I feel he was no more than a good champ for the time ...not exceptional....... :badass:

But I look at his history and some of his biggest wins are against blown up light weights, welters and so on...eg DURAN, HEARNS, MUGABI, LEONARD.... :badass:

Leonard in particular....for Hagler fans out there you must understand that you can forget the decision in the Leonard fight....Ray won regardless, because a middle weight fighting a blown up welter who had I believe only had one fight in five years, and coming in off a detached retina, should not be a competition even....
:badass:
Ray won the hearts, and showed the way by being smart, DURAN another one going the distance with venom, MUGABI AND HEARNS Also causing him plenty of pain and trouble while they lasted...

A good champ for his time....but great...not for me...

Can anyone convince me different?? I'm open minded and love to learn... :beerchug:

Well for me he was great. People often get wrapped up in the bad man image and the intimidation tactics. Now i cannot possibly be viewed as a Hagler expert as i was born in the late 80's but i am a huge fan and i have investigated him in depth.
Hagler actually talked himself up to be a much more fearsome ko artist than he actually was, for example before the hearns fight he was almost demanded to deliver to live up to executioner image. And he did. As he almost always did deliver in his BIG fights. a prime example would be against mugabi. (Short comings can be seen against Leonard and Duran.)
However it is not the aggresive attacking element of Haglers game which makes him great, as duran did hagler had subtle yet great skills which were overshadowed by the come ferociously aggresive style. See the Mugabi fight and one has to admire the defensive bobbing which totally unsettles mugabi and sets him up for some sour medicine.

My apologies that i cant post u a video but i am a fucktard when it comes to posting videos from you tube etc.

Well you could say the same thing about Hopkins. His biggest wins were against blown up WWs and JrMW in Trinidad, Oscar and Wright. Then comes this green up and comer with hardly 20 fights and beats him twice. Still he is considered a top 5 MW all time.

You have to take many things into consideration. His long reign is very significant and some people down play or disregard the greatness of a champion who can consistantly defend his title.

Nice intelligent reply tho hitmandonny and cheers for not presuming me an Hagler hater, as I am far from it...

I'm looking for opinions about the guy and myself fully agree with your points, but negative to that was they was both from lower weight divisions themselves ..

And I recall Hagler saying he would never move weight division, which he stuck to, so if any of the super fights occurred with some one from another weight division it happened on Middle weight terms only....

I ain't saying that he is wrong or right in that, because you can argue a case for either...

Cheers for the reply bud.... :badass:

And I also agree with you too The Rookie Fan , and good points made...

Look at Joe Calzaghe and length of his reign..still gets dissed don't he...

But was Haggler a true all time great or even modern day great... or just a good champion for his time...

How does he hold up.. :badass:

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

Well you could say the same thing about Hopkins. His biggest wins were against blown up WWs and JrMW in Trinidad, Oscar and Wright. Then comes this green up and comer with hardly 20 fights and beats him twice. Still he is considered a top 5 MW all time.

You have to take many things into consideration. His long reign is very significant and some people down play or disregard the greatness of a champion who can consistantly defend his title.

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People keep repeating that,but its simply not true about Hopkins
Joppy had a title,
Holmes had a title
Eastman was a good fighter
Remember Tarver and Glen Johnson,the guys that beat Roy Jones Jr
Well Hopkins beat all of them
As far as Hagler,while alot of people dont remember alot of the names on his record now,they were very good fighters at the time

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

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Originally Posted by The Rookie Fan

Well you could say the same thing about Hopkins. His biggest wins were against blown up WWs and JrMW in Trinidad, Oscar and Wright. Then comes this green up and comer with hardly 20 fights and beats him twice. Still he is considered a top 5 MW all time.

You have to take many things into consideration. His long reign is very significant and some people down play or disregard the greatness of a champion who can consistantly defend his title.

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People keep repeating that,but its simply not true about Hopkins
Joppy had a title,
Holmes had a title
Eastman was a good fighter
Remember Tarver and Glen Johnson,the guys that beat Roy Jones Jr
Well Hopkins beat all of them
As far as Hagler,while alot of people dont remember alot of the names on his record now,they were very good fighters at the time

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Just to be clear, my intention was not to diss Hopkins. I think he was a great champion like Hagler. The fact remains that he only started to be considered P4P great after he beat Trinidad and De la Hoya. This was more a public perception than reality. Very similar to Hagler in that he became more publicly recognized as great after beating Hearns and Duran. I put a lot of stock on long reigns as a champion and a record for defenses as a MW puts Hopkins right up there at the top of all time great MWs.

Hagler is the same for me. Long reigning MW champion with wins over very tough opposition

To me, Hagler is the greatest middleweight that ever lived.

He came up the hard way, never got any breaks on the way up (as Joe Frazier told him, "Son, you got three strikes against you.. you're a southpaw, you're black and you're good"). The ultimate blue collar professional in an era where the media first began to hype people up.

Hager came from a tough background and paid his dues in the notorious gym wars of Philadephia, he got in the ring with world class man like Bobby Watts etc while he was still learning his trade. He had a chin like iron and was only 'dropped' once in his entire career (a very debatable slip/knockdown against the brawling Mustapha Hamsho). That is some feat when you consider he fought everyone who mattered in the 80's - Duran, Hearns, Mugabi, Leonard etc.

The thing with Mrvin was that if you wanted to box, he could outbox you. If you wanted to brawl, he would outbrawl you. He could do everything and had every punch, plus was ALWAYS in weight, well conditioned and well prepared. As a mark of the man, did you know that he never had a contract with his managers or trainers, he shook hands with them when he was a teenager and stuck with them all the way through his career. Similarly, he never moved from middleweight (and i think many fighters move weight divisions because they lose discipline) and was one short of breaking Carlos Monzon's then record for title defences.

Ray Robinson won the middleweight title five times, but that meant he lost it four times.

Hagler was the ultimate technician, a proud and hard professional and (for me) one of the greatest fighters to ever grace that high-profile division.

Well tahnk you bambamdaddio and i feel ur points are valid in their own respect and i have to agree as ur 100% correct.

When Hagler was recognised He was past his best, good post x cc

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Originally Posted by bambamdaddio

How Great was was Marvin Hagler, I feel he was no more than a good champ for the time ...not exceptional....... :badass:

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Well you have to look at the whole picture...obvioulsly skill wise....he had great chin power ect....his heart was huge he never stopped fighting....

Resume is important...look at5 the names he fought not guys with padded records to make him look good he fought guys like...

Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Minter, Antufermo....all HOF fighters all of whom but Leonard he beat soundly..

He beat tough guys like...Mugabi who at the time....was 25-0 and knocking everyone out....Man that guy was a killer in his prime

Hagler fought in one of boxings greatest era's for middle and welterweights...plus most of his defenses were the 15 rd not 12 ( all but 3) not that hey all went that far but point is

Since winning the title his opponents record combined were an outstanding 687-55...that was only during his championship reign...that is more then impressive...especially with the names on that list....

Marvin was more then a good champion and more then just one of the best of his era...He was the greatest MW of all time hands down

Take a look at these and maybe you can see why my opinion is so high of him...

[youtube=425,350]TZHIo5ylQA8[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]ZYHSHd1xfpY[/youtube]

this was perhaps one of the top 10 most exciting fights of all time

Hope this changes your mind a bit

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Originally Posted by bambamdaddio

How Great was was Marvin Hagler, I feel he was no more than a good champ for the time ...not exceptional....... :badass:

But I look at his history and some of his biggest wins are against blown up light weights, welters and so on...eg DURAN, HEARNS, MUGABI, LEONARD.... :badass:

Leonard in particular....for Hagler fans out there you must understand that you can forget the decision in the Leonard fight....Ray won regardless, because a middle weight fighting a blown up welter who had I believe only had one fight in five years, and coming in off a detached retina, should not be a competition even....
:badass:
Ray won the hearts, and showed the way by being smart, DURAN another one going the distance with venom, MUGABI AND HEARNS Also causing him plenty of pain and trouble while they lasted...

A good champ for his time....but great...not for me...

Can anyone convince me different?? I'm open minded and love to learn... :beerchug:

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sadclick for the dumbest post in this board's history. Questioning a warrior like Marvin Hagler's greatness shows nothing but your ignorance for the sweet science.

For me, Hagler was a top 3 MW of all time. Heart, power, stamina, a great chin, work ethic, he had all the traits you'd want in a champion.

Its unfair to classify opposition like Hearns and Leonard as just "blown up welterweights", as they did grow into legit middleweights, although I agree that Duran shouldn't have fought at Middleweight.

One of the greatest, def. P4P and HofF.

Below Monzon above Hopkins.