I think that people are jumping the gun on predicting Pavlik over Taylor...

I have seen some interesting articles and topics on some forums the last few months about Pavlik beating Taylor....You would think that Kelly is a world dominator and Taylor is a guy who is on the slide just looking to be dominated by a new up and comer.....

Has Taylor looked crappy his last few outings against a couple of 154 pounders???....Well the Ouma fight was just out right pitiful...Though Taylor won Ouma is not in the top tier as far as performances anymore...It was a fight though Jermain controlled and there was no doubt on the winner...

The Spinks fight is one that to be honest there is no shame in...Corey can not break wind with a power shot but he can make anyone look bad when he is on point and he can frustrate anyone in the world...IMO Taylors performance in that fight was more due to him not wanting to look bad and Coreys style more then anything....

Taylor may not be exciting and his 2 wins over Hopkins were not exactly show stoppers but talent is what he has and his jaw is not questionable....He is a much rounded fighter then Pavlik and has been to the big dance many more times.....

Taylor has wins over Hopkins twice, a draw with Wright, a win over Spinks, Ouma, Joppy, Edouard, and Marquez...plus his KO % is nothing to laugh at 17 out of 27,,,,,,,,Add that to all his amateur experience and you have a well rounded guy worthy of his ranking as the best MW in the world currently

Pavlik has McKart,,Pierre and Miranda on his resume and his Amateur resume is no way near as impressive and Taylors.....

I am not saying that Kelly can't beat Taylor...Or am I saying Taylor is going to beat Pavlik....

I am just saying I think people are jumping the gun on this one.....This is more of a case where people want a new champion due to Taylors boring style and just hoping Pavlik beats him rather then people actually using their heads and sizing things up......

Like I said I am not picking either way or do I really care who wins this one so my thoughts are unbiased...

I am just wondering if I am alone on this opinion?

Anyone else agree or am I on my own here?

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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn

I have seen some interesting articles and topics on some forums the last few months about Pavlik beating Taylor....You would think that Kelly is a world dominator and Taylor is a guy who is on the slide just looking to be dominated by a new up and comer.....

Has Taylor looked crappy his last few outings against a couple of 154 pounders???....Well the Ouma fight was just out right pitiful...Though Taylor won Ouma is not in the top tier as far as performances anymore...It was a fight though Jermain controlled and there was no doubt on the winner...

The Spinks fight is one that to be honest there is no shame in...Corey can not break wind with a power shot but he can make anyone look bad when he is on point and he can frustrate anyone in the world...IMO Taylors performance in that fight was more due to him not wanting to look bad and Coreys style more then anything....

Taylor may not be exciting and his 2 wins over Hopkins were not exactly show stoppers but talent is what he has and his jaw is not questionable....He is a much rounded fighter then Pavlik and has been to the big dance many more times.....

Taylor has wins over Hopkins twice, a draw with Wright, a win over Spinks, Ouma, Joppy, Edouard, and Marquez...plus his KO % is nothing to laugh at 17 out of 27,,,,,,,,Add that to all his amateur experience and you have a well rounded guy worthy of his ranking as the best MW in the world currently

Pavlik has McKart,,Pierre and Miranda on his resume and his Amateur resume is no way near as impressive and Taylors.....

I am not saying that Kelly can't beat Taylor...Or am I saying Taylor is going to beat Pavlik....

I am just saying I think people are jumping the gun on this one.....This is more of a case where people want a new champion due to Taylors boring style and just hoping Pavlik beats him rather then people actually using their heads and sizing things up......

Like I said I am not picking either way or do I really care who wins this one so my thoughts are unbiased...

I am just wondering if I am alone on this opinion?

Anyone else agree or am I on my own here?

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I disagree about Taylor's jaw he has never really been hit flush in his career by hard hitter its nothing to do with people jumping the gun its due to Taylor looking worse in every fight neglacting one of his best weapons the jab and also not willing to work and he seems to have stamina issues in later stages of fights aswell from what i see in both Hopkins fights.


Pavlik is very good pressure fighter with bombs in both fists Taylor has never really been pressured in his career so we will see how he deals with someone like Pavlik.

I think Taylor is ready to be taken and i think Pavlik the mans to do it Pavlik has been very impressive i have to make him the favorite due to his good chin great power height size and also the workrate.

I'm picking Taylor by a non controversial UD.

I disagree ICE on two accounts.

1) Taylor was hit flush by a hard hitter in Hopkins. Bernard is a legitimate hitter at middleweight.
2) Did Winky not pressure Taylor? I sure saw him pressure Taylor, and still Taylor did decently against a very talented Winky Wright.

Besides those two things I believe that Pavlik looked good against perhaps the most overrated boxer in the sport. Miranda was a poor man's Jeff Lacy and for some reason people thought he was a god because he had good power. What people didn't seem to care about was his lack of coordination, how slow he was, his poor defensive skills, and the fact that he was largely untested especially against another slugger.

I am not sure if Taylor wins, but he is the faster fighter, the more skilled fighter of the two, and he hits pretty hard himself.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I disagree ICE on two accounts.

1) Taylor was hit flush by a hard hitter in Hopkins. Bernard is a legitimate hitter at middleweight.
2) Did Winky not pressure Taylor? I sure saw him pressure Taylor, and still Taylor did decently against a very talented Winky Wright.

Besides those two things I believe that Pavlik looked good against perhaps the most overrated boxer in the sport. Miranda was a poor man's Jeff Lacy and for some reason people thought he was a god because he had good power. What people didn't seem to care about was his lack of coordination, how slow he was, his poor defensive skills, and the fact that he was largely untested especially against another slugger.

I am not sure if Taylor wins, but he is the faster fighter, the more skilled fighter of the two, and he hits pretty hard himself.

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Hopkins is kind of fighter that wears you down with accumulation of punches like he did with Tito the only time he got to Taylor was in last 4 rounds of the 1st fight he caught him with a few decent shots but he hardly hit him in first 8 rounds averaging at round about 8 punches landed a round wasn't it ?? thats not proof enough that Taylor has good chin.

Winky pressured him but not like Pavlik will and he doesn't have nowhere near the power of Pavlik remember Winky just like Hopkins wears you down with accumulation of punches and even Winky don't hit as hard as Hopkins.

And i think its unfair to call Miranda a poor mans Jeff Lacy.

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Don't forget, that even after Spinks lost to Jermain, Cory Spinks is still the #1 ranked jr. middleweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine)


Spinks isn't exactly a slouch ;)

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Don't forget, that even after Spinks lost to Jermain, Cory Spinks is still the #1 ranked jr. middleweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine)


Spinks isn't exactly a slouch ;)

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I also remember hearing everyone on here calling the Spinks fight a joke fight and that Taylor will win easy Spinks had never fought at Middleweight and Taylor should of worked alot harder and not keep relying on the judges.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Don't forget, that even after Spinks lost to Jermain, Cory Spinks is still the #1 ranked jr. middleweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine)


Spinks isn't exactly a slouch ;)

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I also remember hearing everyone on here calling the Spinks fight a joke fight and that Taylor will win easy Spinks had never fought at Middleweight and Taylor should of worked alot harder and not keep relying on the judges.

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Hes not a slouch but hes not a true middleweight either. Taylor is naturally bigger and naturally much stronger but he didnt fight like it. Taylors problem is he only fights as good as the guy hes fighting and doesnt take any extra steps to make a dominant performance. Hes a champion that does just enough to defend his title, but he doesnt defend it with everything he can.

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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING

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Originally Posted by Taeth

I disagree ICE on two accounts.

1) Taylor was hit flush by a hard hitter in Hopkins. Bernard is a legitimate hitter at middleweight.
2) Did Winky not pressure Taylor? I sure saw him pressure Taylor, and still Taylor did decently against a very talented Winky Wright.

Besides those two things I believe that Pavlik looked good against perhaps the most overrated boxer in the sport. Miranda was a poor man's Jeff Lacy and for some reason people thought he was a god because he had good power. What people didn't seem to care about was his lack of coordination, how slow he was, his poor defensive skills, and the fact that he was largely untested especially against another slugger.

I am not sure if Taylor wins, but he is the faster fighter, the more skilled fighter of the two, and he hits pretty hard himself.

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Hopkins is kind of fighter that wears you down with accumulation of punches like he did with Tito the only time he got to Taylor was in last 4 rounds of the 1st fight he caught him with a few decent shots but he hardly hit him in first 8 rounds averaging at round about 8 punches landed a round wasn't it ?? thats not proof enough that Taylor has good chin.

Winky pressured him but not like Pavlik will and he doesn't have nowhere near the power of Pavlik remember Winky just like Hopkins wears you down with accumulation of punches and even Winky don't hit as hard as Hopkins.

And i think its unfair to call Miranda a poor mans Jeff Lacy.

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To address each thing.

Hopkins is a pretty hard hitter. Pavlik is also wear down puncher. He hasn't shown me real one punch ko against top competition, and I don't think its because Miranda has a great chin.

Second, Winky obviously doesn't hit as hard as Pavlik, but he kept comming forward he is much hard to hit than Pavlik, he keeps a high punch rate, and he is southpaw which made it hard for Taylor to use his jab.

thirdly, Lacy is faster, bigger, stronger than Miranda and he has better technique.

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Originally Posted by frozensolid_702

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Originally Posted by BoomBoom

I agree that people are being oo quick to say Pavlik wil win. I think Taylor is the more skilled fighter and hes fought the much better fighters of the two which is why im picking him to win. As far as his chin goes, I think he has a good chin. Still I think Pavlik has enough power to hurt him with one punch, but I doubt he will land the kind of punches he did against Miranda cause Taylor is much more technically sound than Miranda, but still far from a great defensive fighter. You do make some good points, but I think that as far as the Spinks fight he looked bad and not just because Spinks makes people look bad. He was just unimpressive.

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Don't forget, that even after Spinks lost to Jermain, Cory Spinks is still the #1 ranked jr. middleweight in the world (according to Ring Magazine)


Spinks isn't exactly a slouch ;)

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Also Spinks fought a fight that I think would have given Hopkins a shit load of trouble, and I think if he fought like that against Pavlik Spinks would befuddled the slow Pavlik.

I am probably one of those jumping the gun in predicting Pavlik. But in boxing you get judged more so on your last performance. Pavlik looked better than Talyor, their repective opponents had more to do with that though. Had Taylor fought Miranda; Taylor would have finished things the same way IMO.

Taylor showed in his fights with Hopkins & Wright that he can be competitive with the top guys. On paper Taylor is the better fighter. But Pavlik will enter the ring with a well thought out plan & will stick to it. He'll have Taylor backing up all night. Taylor is faster but timing can offset speed. Pavliks power will be the difference IMO. Taylor's got a good chin but Pavliks power will make him think twice.

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Originally Posted by Galaxy.

I am probably one of those jumping the gun in predicting Pavlik. But in boxing you get judged more so on your last performance. Pavlik looked better than Talyor, their repective opponents had more to do with that though. Had Taylor fought Miranda; Taylor would have finished things the same way IMO.

Taylor showed in his fights with Hopkins & Wright that he can be competitive with the top guys. On paper Taylor is the better fighter. But Pavlik will enter the ring with a well thought out plan & will stick to it. He'll have Taylor backing up all night. Taylor is faster but timing can offset speed. Pavliks power will be the difference IMO. Taylor's got a good chin but Pavliks power will make him think twice.

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I duno he is better technically than Kelley but Kelley was willing to get involved with Miranda . Taylor wouldnt even get involved with Spinks so I think Miranda would have intimidated him

I agree with Icecold. Pavliks power is abit underrated and it may not look like much but he has clubbing powerful blows and his record speaks for itself . Taylor has never met anything like it and if he was cautious vs the light middles he is guna be extra cautious vs Pavlik

Although I think it would be a close fight,I too think Pavlik's power is being under rated by some here. To compare it to B Hops is silly to say the least,in any way shape or form is silly, I don't even remember the last time B Hop stopped someone! Each of Pavliks' punches hurts,he is very heavy handed as witnessed by Bronco Mckart's statements after their fight,in which Mckart said every punch is powerful. Heck Pavlik put the tough sob Zertuche in hospital and I'm pretty sure before the fight,Zertuche was hardly ever hurt before,pro or amateurs.

I agree that JT has faced the better fighters but neither Winky,nor B Hop nor anyone else he has faced are as big,strong and forceful as Kelly. Whether anyone liked Edison or not,he hits harder than JT and Pavlik walked right through his shots. And against B Hop and at times Winky(the last round in particular) JT had rounds off where the opponent was not active and still he appeared to fade down the stretch,a point not many have mentioned. On the other hand,Pavlik has probably the best stamina at the weight class,he just does not stop throwing punches.And we all know JT's chin will never have been checked like it will in this fight. He may very well make use of the jab and lateral movement but I don't think he is that good with that tactic to avoid Kelly alllll night long,he will get caught somwhere along.

Again,I'm not saying either guy willl blow the other away but merely making observations. I think it's a 55-45 fight for Kelly but JT can win. He certainly appears motivated in his training.

All the analysis has been good..........

..............but I'm still riding the Pavlik bandwagon.

;D ;D ;D