Comparing Trinidad's losses
Although Trinidad lost to Jones Jr. tonight, I came away with a better feeling than I did after his loss to Winky Wright two years ago. Basically because I think Tito showed more tonight than he did against Winky, even when he had more things going against him tonight. When I think of Trinidad's 3 losses, I tend to think of them in the following way:
Hopkins:
This was Tito's first loss ever. It was his 2nd fight at 160 pounds (the first was a devastating KO win over William Joppy). Tito just felt that his style would defeat just about anybody, and wasn't prepared for the way Hopkins brilliantly fought him. But Tito continued giving it his all, and finally was KO'ed in the 11th round.
Winky:
To me, this was Tito's ugliest loss of all. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out why Tito was looking so incredibly bad against Winky. Of all three losses, I consider this one to be the most one-sided, 'cause Winky hardly broke a sweat. And Tito never changed his style, not even once. It hurts to watch the fight, and I don't think Tito ever laid a glove on him. The fact that Winky is known for his air-tight defense certainly didn't help Tito any. Also, Tito's corner was strangely subdued during that fight.
Roy Jones Jr:
There were a lot of factors stacked up against Tito tonight. The fight was at 170 pounds. What the hell is that? Tito was 3-2 at 160, not exactly a springboard to jump up to 170. Oh well....
Also, he had that 2-year layoff. No matter how good you are, or how determined you are, it's hard to shake off the effects of a two-year layoff. Not only that, but Tito has no tune-ups, and fights a former p4p champion, an ATG, who has fought at heavyweight. Even so, Tito showed heart. He threw hooks, jabs, right hands at Roy. He shot combinations, and went to the body and to the head. But he never hurt Jones Jr. From the middle rounds on, Jones dominated the fight. Tito continued to fight on, 'cause he has a huge heart... but it was clear that the outcome was inevitable.
Thus, I also think Tito can hold his head up high, 'cause he carried himself well tonight.
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
I think you are getting carried away a bit about the Roy-Trinidad fight. Like I said in the other post in terms of walking around weight they aren't that far apart in size regardless of where they have foughten in the past. I agree however Winky was Trinidad's worst loss, and by far IMO. I think however this fight was pretty much on par with the Hopkins fight with everything considered. I felt Roy could have KO'ed if he had wanted to, but he carried Trinidad to the finish line. Against Hopkins in wasn't until about half way before Trinidad started to truly get dominated.
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
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Originally Posted by Taeth
I think you are getting carried away a bit about the Roy-Trinidad fight. Like I said in the other post in terms of walking around weight they aren't that far apart in size regardless of where they have foughten in the past. I agree however Winky was Trinidad's worst loss, and by far IMO. I think however this fight was pretty much on par with the Hopkins fight with everything considered. I felt Roy could have KO'ed if he had wanted to, but he carried Trinidad to the finish line. Against Hopkins in wasn't until about half way before Trinidad started to truly get dominated.
While I respect your opinion, I think the size difference IS a big factor. They may have both weighed in at 170, but remember where they both come from. Tito's power was most devastating at 147 and 154. Just because he put on weight does not mean he belongs at 170. Whereas Jones is a natural 178-pounder, and has fought much bigger guys.
And about Jones KO'ing Trinidad any time he wanted to, I gotta admit to thinking during the fight that if Jones had pressed the issue, a KO would've been possible. But Jones' comments after the fight seem to point out otherwise. Jones really had no reason NOT to go for the knockout, had he been able to.
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
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Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I think you are getting carried away a bit about the Roy-Trinidad fight. Like I said in the other post in terms of walking around weight they aren't that far apart in size regardless of where they have foughten in the past. I agree however Winky was Trinidad's worst loss, and by far IMO. I think however this fight was pretty much on par with the Hopkins fight with everything considered. I felt Roy could have KO'ed if he had wanted to, but he carried Trinidad to the finish line. Against Hopkins in wasn't until about half way before Trinidad started to truly get dominated.
While I respect your opinion, I think the size difference IS a big factor. They may have both weighed in at 170, but remember where they both come from. Tito's power was most devastating at 147 and 154. Just because he put on weight does not mean he belongs at 170. Whereas Jones is a natural 178-pounder, and has fought much bigger guys.
And about Jones KO'ing Trinidad any time he wanted to, I gotta admit to thinking during the fight that if Jones had pressed the issue, a KO would've been possible. But Jones' comments after the fight seem to point out otherwise. Jones really had no reason NOT to go for the knockout, had he been able to.
As far as the walking around weight goes it is not true...Tito does not walk around that heavy....He had to work to get up to the 170...though he came in a bit heavy a Half pound I think...he had to work to gain the weight...his own camp stated it several times...even before the weigh in's they mentioned it.....
Felix walks around at 170 MAX....and to walk around at that weight when not training then have to be at that weight after a training camp is no easy task...I some ways harder then dropping weight
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
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Originally Posted by TitoFan
Although Trinidad lost to Jones Jr. tonight, I came away with a better feeling than I did after his loss to Winky Wright two years ago. Basically because I think Tito showed more tonight than he did against Winky, even when he had more things going against him tonight. When I think of Trinidad's 3 losses, I tend to think of them in the following way:
Hopkins:
This was Tito's first loss ever. It was his 2nd fight at 160 pounds (the first was a devastating KO win over William Joppy). Tito just felt that his style would defeat just about anybody, and wasn't prepared for the way Hopkins brilliantly fought him. But Tito continued giving it his all, and finally was KO'ed in the 11th round.
Winky:
To me, this was Tito's ugliest loss of all. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out why Tito was looking so incredibly bad against Winky. Of all three losses, I consider this one to be the most one-sided, 'cause Winky hardly broke a sweat. And Tito never changed his style, not even once. It hurts to watch the fight, and I don't think Tito ever laid a glove on him. The fact that Winky is known for his air-tight defense certainly didn't help Tito any. Also, Tito's corner was strangely subdued during that fight.
Roy Jones Jr:
There were a lot of factors stacked up against Tito tonight. The fight was at 170 pounds. What the hell is that? Tito was 3-2 at 160, not exactly a springboard to jump up to 170. Oh well....
Also, he had that 2-year layoff. No matter how good you are, or how determined you are, it's hard to shake off the effects of a two-year layoff. Not only that, but Tito has no tune-ups, and fights a former p4p champion, an ATG, who has fought at heavyweight. Even so, Tito showed heart. He threw hooks, jabs, right hands at Roy. He shot combinations, and went to the body and to the head. But he never hurt Jones Jr. From the middle rounds on, Jones dominated the fight. Tito continued to fight on, 'cause he has a huge heart... but it was clear that the outcome was inevitable.
Thus, I also think Tito can hold his head up high, 'cause he carried himself well tonight.
12th dude sorry :-\
:)
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
Tito's best weight and Roy's best weight are miles apart. Every time Tito has lost I've thought he was clearly beaten.
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I think you are getting carried away a bit about the Roy-Trinidad fight. Like I said in the other post in terms of walking around weight they aren't that far apart in size regardless of where they have foughten in the past. I agree however Winky was Trinidad's worst loss, and by far IMO. I think however this fight was pretty much on par with the Hopkins fight with everything considered. I felt Roy could have KO'ed if he had wanted to, but he carried Trinidad to the finish line. Against Hopkins in wasn't until about half way before Trinidad started to truly get dominated.
:) CC , Im agree with you of all that you said , inclusive with the line of Jones could have KO`ed if he had wanted to , but foe me was that Jones wanted to tell him that Tito dont have nothing to get in that weight, that is what i think...... 8)
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
People need to get a clue. Every single person who beat Trinidad beat him because they're flat out better than him. Please stop with the 'he went up too high in weight' bullsh!t. He'd lose to all of them no matter what weight he fought at. Styles make fights. Take it from me, I'm a Judah fan and that guy's got his @ss kicked more times than Trinidad.
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
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Originally Posted by skyler
People need to get a clue. Every single person who beat Trinidad beat him because they're flat out better than him. Please stop with the 'he went up too high in weight' bullsh!t. He'd lose to all of them no matter what weight he fought at. Styles make fights. Take it from me, I'm a Judah fan and that guy's got his @ss kicked more times than Trinidad.
You may be right but there is no shame there, those are three damn good fighters.
Also, as you said, styles make fights and even though Wright gave Tito his worst loss and even though Tito would probably never beat Winky, I would never say Wright is a better fighter than Tito.
Wright would lose to some that Tito would beat and I don't think I could say the same the other way around. Also, Tito achieved much more than Wright in his career.
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyler
People need to get a clue. Every single person who beat Trinidad beat him because they're flat out better than him. Please stop with the 'he went up too high in weight' bullsh!t. He'd lose to all of them no matter what weight he fought at. Styles make fights. Take it from me, I'm a Judah fan and that guy's got his @ss kicked more times than Trinidad.
Thats because Judah is shit.
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
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Originally Posted by skyler
Take it from me, I'm a Judah fan and that guy's got his @ss kicked more times than Trinidad.
CC#77 on me skyler....
This has got to be the best part of post that you've ever put together. :)
Well done. :appl:
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
Trinidad has 3 losses, to 3 fighters who were simply better than he was, and who are all Hall of Famers. Hopkins, Winky, and Jones were simply better than Tito, and they would have beaten him regardless of weight, time, place, etc.
The only difference in the losses is that against Hopkins and Roy (especially Hopkins), Tito showed tremendous heart and kept fighting despite being severely outgunned and outclassed.
Against Winky, Tito seemed to walk in expecting an early KO, and once that didn't happen, he just let himself get picked apart for 12 rounds.
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
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Originally Posted by SweetPea
Trinidad has 3 losses, to 3 fighters who were simply better than he was, and who are all Hall of Famers. Hopkins, Winky, and Jones were simply better than Tito, and they would have beaten him regardless of weight, time, place, etc.
The only difference in the losses is that against Hopkins and Roy (especially Hopkins), Tito showed tremendous heart and kept fighting despite being severely outgunned and outclassed.
Against Winky, Tito seemed to walk in expecting an early KO, and once that didn't happen, he just let himself get picked apart for 12 rounds.
I disagree 100% with this statement. Tito is one of the best fighters of our generation. It's funny how someone like Ricky Hatton can spend years and years at 140 then move up to 147 and lose and people complain that he was way to undersized for the weight, on the other side of the coin Tito can fight one short year at 154 move up to 160 and lose and no one claimed that he was undersized, BULLSHIT, Tito was undersized and fought a much bigger Hopkins in which resulted in his first defeat, he had no business being at that weight and fighting that fight, he should have stayed at 154 and dominated just like he was doing. He took three years off and came back and loss to Wright, that was not a prime Tito that was an inactive Tito who had one fight against Mayorga prior to the match up. Roy Jones has alway's and will alway's be bigger and stronger than Tito Trinidad whether both fighters were shot or no, but considering that Jones has been active and Tito has not been I think it's a double insult for you too compare the two fighters at all, why you are at it let's get a Cotto Vs Pavlik fight for you to break down
Re: Comparing Trinidad's losses
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
I think you are getting carried away a bit about the Roy-Trinidad fight. Like I said in the other post in terms of walking around weight they aren't that far apart in size regardless of where they have foughten in the past. I agree however Winky was Trinidad's worst loss, and by far IMO. I think however this fight was pretty much on par with the Hopkins fight with everything considered. I felt Roy could have KO'ed if he had wanted to, but he carried Trinidad to the finish line. Against Hopkins in wasn't until about half way before Trinidad started to truly get dominated.
I have no clue who is giving you your information but whoever it is they need to lay off the opiom/crack they are smoking. Tito is no where near the same walk around weight as Roy Jones, on top of that it has taken RJJ years just to lose mass of his body frame from his very short stint at HW. Compare someone who fought his heaviest at 160 (Prior to the fight) to someone who fought his heaviest at HW and say that there walk around weight is close to each other is pure lunacy.
