How good was a 'prime' tyson?

Ok guys, im gonna brandish the ol' 'in his prime' rhetoric again, (damn, i hate using that word because it reminds me of the doubters and haters who always quote 'in his prime, but in his prime, but in his prime, but in his prime he wouldve beaten him' etc etc non stop).

The simple fact is that fighters fight each other at various times, the greatest fighter in boxing is the one who achieves the most, not the one who people say 'but in his prime he wouldve beaten a prime version of the other fighter'...because its complete fiction, its an opinion, nothing more and nothing less...the greatest fighter is the one with the best record against the best opponents, that is how history judges.

HOWEVER I DIVULGED...But using the old 'in his prime' argument that so many like to spring up...i could say the same to totally discredit mike tyson.

Note firstly that i think tyson was a great boxer with great talent and skill, i am, just writing this to prove a point though.

WHO THE HELL DID A 'PRIME' TYSON BEAT THAT WAS IN THEIR 'PRIME'?

He beat no decent 'prime' fighter himself.

He beat a past it larry holmes and a crap spinks. Then in his 'prime' he lost to douglas. The only other fighters he fought in their 'prime' were holyfield and danny williams and lost them both aswell. He fought a slightly past his 'prime' lenox and got beaten badly.

So, if a fighter is devastating against bums, or second rate champs yet is a popular fighter, then it doesnt matter if he didnt fight or beat any decet fighter in their 'prime'?

The fact is that tyson lost to holyfield and to lewis, i'll ignore the later losses as they are irrelevant. I'll ignore the douglas fight aswell, even though he lost fair and square.

These were the best two fighters he fought. He lost them both. Yet people make excuses saying 'but in his prime tyson wouldve bashed them up'...ERRRR HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????? How would he bash up holyfield and lewis? Who did tyson fight that was in their prime when he was in his prime?

Lenox bashed the sh*t out of all the fighters that tyson also bashed when tyson was 'in his prime'...they were all pretty much unworthy opponents.

So how good was this 'prime tyson' that people rave on and on about? HE NEVER FOUGHT ANY GREAT FIGHTER IN THEIR 'PRIME' EXCEPT FOR LEWIS AND HOLYFIELD AND LOST THEM BOTH (but the excuse is that tyson was past it, maybe he was, but he never fought anyone anywhere near as good as those 2 when he was in his 'prime')

So, just highlighting how silly this whole 'in his prime' make believe fictitious style of comparison of boxers looks in my opinion.

I hear time again people saying that 'a prime tyson wouldve beaten holyfield or lewis'...well...based on what exactly? Based on the fact he never fought a top rate fighter in his 'prime' and was knocking out bums? Lenox ko'd very simmilar bums aswell.

So what do you guys think? Was this magnificent 'prime' tyson beat any other heavyweight boxer? Even though when we look at his records, he never beat any other great fighter in their 'prime'.

Heres a scenario, who wouold win? A prime roy jones or a prime achilles from ancient greece (the greatest warrior of all time supposedly???).

Or...a prime ray robinson vs a prime bruce lee?

A prime robocop vs a prime terminator?

A prime optimus prime vs a prime megatron?

Or finally...im sure that a prime he-man would still beat a prime skeletor! Even though skeletor was very old when they fought, his magic was a lot greater due to him being older and wiser therefore he was more powerful than when he was younger and he-man still beat him.

I know the last few were silly, it just illustrates the whole 'in his prime argument'...its all make bellieve.

In the end a fighter is judged by their record and who they faced, what they achieved etc...not weighed up in a fictional battle of who would win in their prime...because its FICTION!

For the record though, i think a prime achilles or king leonadas of sparta would beat any boxer in a fight because those guys were just savage ass mofo's lol.;):)

Anyone else sick of the whole whining voice going 'yeah but in his prime he wouldve won'...the bottom line is that even if a fighter does get beat and isnt at his peak, is past his best, it still doestn mean he wouldve beaten the opponent if he was 'in his prime'. A fight is not determined by 1 fighter, it is a mixture of 2 fighters movements, like a chess match.

So...if fighter 1 doest fight well, then fighter 2 doesnt need to fight that well to beat him.

But if fighter 1 is in his 'prime' and fights really well, what if fighter 2 raises his game because the stimulus infront of him is greater and raises his game even higher and wins aswell.

This is why the whole 'in his prime' argument is useless imo.

Wow..take a breath...Tyson had sensational power/speed.Its when fighters came back on him that the questions demanded answers

Tyson had great power and speed , but as time when on it showed he didnt have the stomach for fights when the other guy fought back.
No way a prime Tyson beats Ali or Foreman ( primes ).

I just watch "the best of Tyson" volume 1 & 2 the other night on ESPN.

He was pretty fvckin agreesive fighter. It's like.. Tyson is the pitbull in the ring, and his opponents are french poodles. ;D

Tyson in his prime looked amazing. I think he could possibly beat any fighter on his best day but it cant be proven cuz he never fought a big name in his prime. Round about the Bruno fight in 89 he began slwoing down through all the money and distractions he had, then after Douglas he was ruined so we never saw how he'd do against a great fighter

My guess is if Tyson met an ATG when he was at his best he'd stand a pretty good chance.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Tyson had great power and speed , but as time when on it showed he didnt have the stomach for fights when the other guy fought back.
No way a prime Tyson beats Ali or Foreman ( primes ).

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You can't say none of his first 27 opponents fought back! He was just so good that their attempts to fight back were blown away.

I think Tyson was great in his prime but I doubt he could beat any of the top ten all-time heavyweights just on a heart standpoint. Tyson had great skill but anytime someone stood their ground he had trouble.


I would have LOVED to see Tyson fight Bowe, Rahman, Briggs, Mercer, and Morrison

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I think Tyson was great in his prime but I doubt he could beat any of the top ten all-time heavyweights just on a heart standpoint. Tyson had great skill but anytime someone stood their ground he had trouble.


I would have LOVED to see Tyson fight Bowe, Rahman, Briggs, Mercer, and Morrison

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He would've detroyed all of them, except perhaps Bowe imo

Actually I think at the time which was obviously post prison ( 1992-1999 ) all of those guys would have been very difficult for Tyson to beat.

Riddick Bowe had the perfect style to beat Tyson...big guy, didn't take any shit, and had big power.

Rahman I would compare to Frank Bruno, he wasn't as good as Bruno but he had the same length and power and Tyson would have more trouble because he would have been older and Frank rocked him a time or two. Tyson would win but it would be interesting.

Briggs was big, strong, and had quick hands in his prime...I think it would have been close until Tyson landed a perfect counter punch to KO Briggs.

Mercer was just tough and gutsy. A better boxer than Oliver McCall but perhaps with a chin that's about the same level.

Morrison had big power and he could box a little it would have been a brawl.


Also Tyson vs the Michael Moorer who beat Holyfield would have been a good fight too and with the back story of Teddy Atlas training Moorer....wow what a fight that would have been

I agree Big H. Tyson would have blown them into pieces. hehehe.


No matter what people say, Tyson would have beaten anybody had he concentrated on his boxing career not his jail career.:cool:

I suggest that before somebody posts something about how great or not great a fighter is he should at least watch 10 of his fights. Remember that Tyson was the youngest Heavyweight champ. That was a great accomplishment already.

I am a Tyson fan because I have seen his fights when he was knocking people out. I am of the belief that was his prime period. After unifying the heavyweight titles, Tyson lost his mind and was never the same. He was not in his prime when he fought Douglas. In fact, Douglas fought an already very troubled Tyson.

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Originally Posted by brucelee

Tyson was the youngest Heavyweight champ. That was a great accomplishment already.

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I wonder what Michael Spinks thinks about this.

After all, he was still the heavyweight champion when tyson beat berbick for an alphabet title, and Spinks would go on to successfully defend the real/linear Heavyweight Championship against Jerry Cooney 7 months after Tyson picked up the alphabet trinket from Berbick.

Tyson may have fought in a weak era but a Tyson at his best had

1. Speed and combination punching that is perhapes one of the top 5 of any HW

2. His conditioning was fantastic and his power was unquestionable

3. His jaw was fantastic....Just look at shots he ate from Ruddock

4. He had a support team that at the time Tyson believed anything they said was the word of GOD so as long as they encouraged him his mindset was that of a champion

To question if Tyson was really that good is almost pointless....No One questioned how good Michael Spinks really was as a HW until Tyson sparked him...At the time no one thought Tony Tucker was ordinary until Tyson beat him, Trevor Berbick though had 3 or 4 losses at the time Tyson beat him was a feared puncher, Frank Bruno who is still thought of as a highly skilled fighter in his day with his only downfall being a soft chin was starched early both times when he fought Tyson...Other then a loss early in his career Bruno only lost to the elite of his era...and all murderous punchers.....

Skill wise Tyson was as good as any HW in history....If his mind was not fragile he coiuld have been a top 3 ATG....

If Tyson would or would not have beaten Bowe, Holyfield, etc if he stayed on course? I am not going to specualte that....There are many peolole out there that have asked the question

"If Tyson kept on the way he was and had not ended up leaving the Catskill camp then ending up in prison would guys like Bowe, Holyfield, Mercer etc have been such big names in the 1990's or Tyson opponents?"

Not a crazy question IMO

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by Lyle

I think Tyson was great in his prime but I doubt he could beat any of the top ten all-time heavyweights just on a heart standpoint. Tyson had great skill but anytime someone stood their ground he had trouble.


I would have LOVED to see Tyson fight Bowe, Rahman, Briggs, Mercer, and Morrison

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He would've detroyed all of them, except perhaps Bowe imo

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And even Bowe may have had his hands full. Tyson at his best was nasty.

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Originally Posted by miles

And even Bowe may have had his hands full. Tyson at his best was nasty.

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Are you kidding me??? Riddick Bowe had ALL the tools to beat Tyson prime or post jail.

Bowe was bigger, he was mentally tough, he has never been KO'd, he RARELY if ever got hurt (I never saw anyone other than Holyfield or Lewis in the amateurs do it).

Bowe was better than the Douglas that beat Tyson in 1990...he was MUCH better

A prime, focused and confident Tyson had the ability to beat anyone ever IMO

It was only when his foot speed went that he struggled againsed bigger guys, he could get on the inside quicker than a taller heavy could throw a jab for fucks sake.