Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Was Muhammad Ali really the best heavyweight ever to step in the ring, he told us he was and many would mention him as the best without really seeing a lot of his fights, he lost a lot of his prime due to his battle with government about not doing his national service, and going out to fight in the war. He was involved in a number of thrilling fights but a lot could have gone the other way, during his career he was not really regarded as the best, he probably did more for the sport than any other fighter and was one of the best of his era but was he really the best ever? If some of the following fights had gone the other way do you think he still would have been regarded as the best.
The first question mark on his ability was in 1963, he went down heavily to a big hook from Henry Cooper and was saved by the bell, then miraculously his corner discovered that his glove had been cut or torn, and a replacement was fitted giving Ali the necessary time to recover, this is a very rare incident and an amazing coincidence that it happen as Ali stared his first defeat in the face.
In 1967 saw Ali out of the ring for 3 years, many think he jumped straight back in the ring with Joe Frazier in 1970 and the reason he lost was due to severe ring rust, however he actually had 2 fights in the come back before facing Frazier (Quarry 3rd TKO and Bonevena 15th TKO) so he was actually reasonably well prepared, a fight where he was still considered in his prime but he was soundly beaten by Frazier.
11 fights and wins later over decent but apart from an aging Floyd Patterson not world class opponents he took on Ken Norton and once again he was beaten, the 1st rematch went his way by split decision but many would argue that Norton won that fight as well.
Then came the re-match with Frazier which Ali won, this time it was a reasonably deserved victory. Then came the fight with Foreman, Foreman punched himself out and lost by 8th round KO, Ali came into this fight as the underdog, but pulled off possibly the biggest win of his career.
The 3rd match with Frazier was also a win but many regarded Frazier as this was his last hooray and he never won another fight after this one.
In 1976 Muhammad Ali was surrounded with controversy once again as he stole a close decision once again against Norton and once again many think Norton won that fight.
Ali went on to win his next 2 fights but many believed he was on the slide, the loss to big underdog Leon Spinks confirmed that theory, he avenged the defeat 9 months later but never looked like the same Ali due to early onset of his current illness, a fight with Larry Holmes was a big mistake as Larry was forced to take it easy on the great man and a number of times asked the referee to end the contest as to the amount of punishment he was receiving, Angelo Dundee finally did the deed and pulled Ali out, still he continued to fight on losing to Trevor Berbick on points.
Muhammad Ali will always be remembered for his skill and bravery in the ring and also what he did for the sport but would he have been remembered as the best should a few of the tight decisions gone against him as they maybe should have. How many out there regard him as the best without actually seeing a lot of his fights, having seen almost all of his fights I personally think he was one of the best but maybe not the best.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
....in a word NO
Joe Louis is the Greatest of All-Time
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
If not the greatest, he certainly deserves a spot in the top 4 with Johnson, Louis and Dempsey.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Muhamed Ali
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Its either Ali or Louis. I dont think anyone else would be quite deserving enough to be called the greatest. You could make a strong case for both guys though.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jmbtandy
Was Muhammad Ali really the best heavyweight ever to step in the ring, he told us he was and many would mention him as the best without really seeing a lot of his fights, he lost a lot of his prime due to his battle with government about not doing his national service, and going out to fight in the war. He was involved in a number of thrilling fights but a lot could have gone the other way, during his career he was not really regarded as the best, he probably did more for the sport than any other fighter and was one of the best of his era but was he really the best ever? If some of the following fights had gone the other way do you think he still would have been regarded as the best.
The first question mark on his ability was in 1963, he went down heavily to a big hook from Henry Cooper and was saved by the bell, then miraculously his corner discovered that his glove had been cut or torn, and a replacement was fitted giving Ali the necessary time to recover, this is a very rare incident and an amazing coincidence that it happen as Ali stared his first defeat in the face.
In 1967 saw Ali out of the ring for 3 years, many think he jumped straight back in the ring with Joe Frazier in 1970 and the reason he lost was due to severe ring rust, however he actually had 2 fights in the come back before facing Frazier (Quarry 3rd TKO and Bonevena 15th TKO) so he was actually reasonably well prepared, a fight where he was still considered in his prime but he was soundly beaten by Frazier.
11 fights and wins later over decent but apart from an aging Floyd Patterson not world class opponents he took on Ken Norton and once again he was beaten, the 1st rematch went his way by split decision but many would argue that Norton won that fight as well.
Then came the re-match with Frazier which Ali won, this time it was a reasonably deserved victory. Then came the fight with Foreman, Foreman punched himself out and lost by 8th round KO, Ali came into this fight as the underdog, but pulled off possibly the biggest win of his career.
The 3rd match with Frazier was also a win but many regarded Frazier as this was his last hooray and he never won another fight after this one.
In 1976 Muhammad Ali was surrounded with controversy once again as he stole a close decision once again against Norton and once again many think Norton won that fight.
Ali went on to win his next 2 fights but many believed he was on the slide, the loss to big underdog Leon Spinks confirmed that theory, he avenged the defeat 9 months later but never looked like the same Ali due to early onset of his current illness, a fight with Larry Holmes was a big mistake as Larry was forced to take it easy on the great man and a number of times asked the referee to end the contest as to the amount of punishment he was receiving, Angelo Dundee finally did the deed and pulled Ali out, still he continued to fight on losing to Trevor Berbick on points.
Muhammad Ali will always be remembered for his skill and bravery in the ring and also what he did for the sport but would he have been remembered as the best should a few of the tight decisions gone against him as they maybe should have. How many out there regard him as the best without actually seeing a lot of his fights, having seen almost all of his fights I personally think he was one of the best but maybe not the best.
can you imagine how boxing history would have changed if Doug Jones got the win in there fight...or LaStarza beat Marciano in their first enounter...now that would be some sh@t right there.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Muhamed Ali
I'm sorry that's ridiculous to rank Marciano over Ali. He had I think 7 title defenses and none of them were anything stellar. That's absurd Lyle and I love Rocky Marciano. Ali more or less dominated the best era in heavyweight history I would have him as my top heavyweight but have no problems with Louis being regarded as the greatest.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
He himself said so, didn't he? and I ain't in any mood to argue with him.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
I'm sorry that's ridiculous to rank Marciano over Ali. He had I think 7 title defenses and none of them were anything stellar. That's absurd Lyle and I love Rocky Marciano. Ali more or less dominated the best era in heavyweight history I would have him as my top heavyweight but have no problems with Louis being regarded as the greatest.
....Rocky NEVER LOST....hence #2. It's not like Rocky was the overwhelming favorite to beat ANYONE he fought and yet some how he still won all 49 of his fights. Might not be great to you but it's great to me
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Muhamed Ali
Ali would have schooled and humiliated both Marciano & Louis.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
...and Ali could have flown a rocketship to the moon too...doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about.
And no Ali wouldn't have had an easy time with either of those fighters even in HYPOTHETICAL fights. Joe Louis 25 title defenses, Rocky Marciano 49-0-0....what concrete evidence do you present on Ali's behalf???
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
I'm sorry that's ridiculous to rank Marciano over Ali. He had I think 7 title defenses and none of them were anything stellar. That's absurd Lyle and I love Rocky Marciano. Ali more or less dominated the best era in heavyweight history I would have him as my top heavyweight but have no problems with Louis being regarded as the greatest.
....
Rocky NEVER LOST....hence #2. It's not like Rocky was the overwhelming favorite to beat ANYONE he fought and yet some how he still won all 49 of his fights. Might not be great to you but it's great to me
Neither did Sven Ottke
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
...and Ali could have flown a rocketship to the moon too...doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about.
And no Ali wouldn't have had an easy time with either of those fighters even in HYPOTHETICAL fights. Joe Louis 25 title defenses, Rocky Marciano 49-0-0....what concrete evidence do you present on Ali's behalf???
Marciano's 49-0 has absolutely nothing on Ali's 50-5. Ali had as many great fighters on his resume that anybody ever has. You may think he is overrated and that his legend is exaggerated but you can't be serious with Marciano.
Ali's record is mindblowing because of how many good fighters he beat. It's a long list so I won't bother we all know it.
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rene69
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
1. Joe Louis
2. Rocky Marciano
3. Muhamed Ali
Ali would have schooled and humiliated both Marciano & Louis.
It was a different era, Valuev would probably have beaten Marciano with his 1'3" height advantage and 123lb weight advantage, does that mean he should be remembered as a great, I think not. Ali is up there with the greats, I just think he convinced more people he was the best, rather than actually being the best
Re: Was Muhammad Ali really the best
Quote:
Originally Posted by
amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
...and Ali could have flown a rocketship to the moon too...doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about.
And no Ali wouldn't have had an easy time with either of those fighters even in HYPOTHETICAL fights. Joe Louis 25 title defenses, Rocky Marciano 49-0-0....what concrete evidence do you present on Ali's behalf???
Marciano's 49-0 has absolutely nothing on Ali's 50-5. Ali had as many great fighters on his resume that anybody ever has. You may think he is overrated and that his legend is exaggerated but you can't be serious with Marciano.
Ali's record is mindblowing because of how many good fighters he beat. It's a long list so I won't bother we all know it.
Nobody is doubting his record, but he was fortunate a few times and lost in his prime
