Cotto and margarito determining the best welter?

So i got to thinking about how this fight is to determine the best welter..

and the question arose about margarito being the number 2 welter?..

Because for me.. I know tony could have beaten williams..

i saw the way he took the late rounds, he won back a lot of rounds and he suffered because he didnt do the tornado thing which is HIS thing and started somewhat late..

so i dont discount him as the number two welterweight..

but eventually the records have to show and paul got the decision whether i think tony could have and should have made himself win the fight.

So after this.. maybe its the winner fights paul williams.. its interesting on both sides.. this is THE fight because its gona be war..

but theres more to be determined..

i would like to see margarito go and avenge the loss to Paul.. whether he beats cotto or not..

i would like to see cotto fight paul too but this for me is not as important..

its all a lot to go round in the head but for me with all due respect i couldnt name tony number one if he was to win saturday without avenging the loss.. just because he needs that single W which he should have gotten for himself first time round..

where as if cotto wins im happy saying.. Numero uno cause rather then him having been in with paul atall i still predict he would beat paul before actually having to face off with him.. whether he does or not is a different matter for a later date.

I think regardless of the marvellous comeback fight Willimas slipped a few places due to his loss to Quinatana.
Margarito returned after his respective loss against a fighter - perhaps better than Williams and put on a huge display.

However I do agree, if Cotto wins he does take the No.1 spot, should Margarito win he may need one more fight to solidify his status at the top (preferably against Willimas.)

I'd be interested in seeing Willimas vs. Cintron at this stage.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

I think regardless of the marvellous comeback fight Willimas slipped a few places due to his loss to Quinatana.
Margarito returned after his respective loss against a fighter - perhaps better than Williams and put on a huge display.

However I do agree, if Cotto wins he does take the No.1 spot, should Margarito win he may need one more fight to solidify his status at the top (preferably against Willimas.)

I'd be interested in seeing Willimas vs. Cintron at this stage.

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this is what makes the welters so interesting at present.

because there are these guys at the top who have things to prove and make up for.. but yet these are different matters ..

Williams showed power in taking out quintana in the rematch..

and what he had to make up for was the fact that in the first fight.. he didnt lack chin.. didnt get hurt or anything epecially.. just looked like he lacked pop.. probably a weight issue or a camp issue.. maybe over trained.

whereas cintron now if he chooses to stay as a welter its been determined that he cannot hang with margarito.. thats the very top step of welter..
which is a shame for him.

in the first fight with margarito you might have said cintron lacked heart a bit or whatever.. but in the second fight he was more gutsy and really wanted it but it just cannot happen for him against tony.

so two guys who needed to prove themselves but this still puts paul williams on top because he did lack pop once.. but cintron's whole game seems to be taking the guys out.. hes got the power not enough else to keep him up.. and paul has the power.. maybe enough to stop cintron.

so interesting fight which may or may not determine much or may not need determining.. a good one for the prediction contest maybe.. Somewhat of an ease.

No. this is def. the fight against the top two welters. The longer that Williams stays at Welter without winning will just be more of a struggle for him to make weight. Which means he is a less of threat.

Margarito lost the UD against Williams, but in no way was he beat up.

Williams has been defeated, although he avenged against the Q.

The winner of this fight is the #1 welterweight in the world. Not undisputed, not the linear champ, but certainly the #1 ranked welter.

A truely great era for a division can be seen when any of the fighters have a chance of beating the others.

For example the heavies in the 70's.
Frazier was able to beat Ali once. Frazier could not beat Foreman. Ali beat Foreman. Foreman beat Norton. Norton beat Ali.
Great Era.

Here I feel the blend of styles, personalities and approaches will allow a blend of mixed results between the top competitors which will make fo a historical and memorable era.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

A truely great era for a division can be seen when any of the fighters have a chance of beating the others.

For example the heavies in the 70's.
Frazier was able to beat Ali once. Frazier could not beat Foreman. Ali beat Foreman. Foreman beat Norton. Norton beat Ali.
Great Era.

Here I feel the blend of styles, personalities and approaches will allow a blend of mixed results between the top competitors which will make fo a historical and memorable era.

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Amen to that cuz :cool:

Yep pretty much its no brainer although i still think Paul Williams has Antonio Margarito's number.

I Don't think so If Cotto wins he is number one! He is anyway! But Williams has to be above Marg in the rankings he has beaten him and has beaten everybody else he has faced!

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Originally Posted by ssss

Yep pretty much its no brainer although i still think Paul Williams has Antonio Margarito's number.

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You may wann look at the last few rounds of that fight to really be able to say he has his number.

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

A truely great era for a division can be seen when any of the fighters have a chance of beating the others.

For example the heavies in the 70's.
Frazier was able to beat Ali once. Frazier could not beat Foreman. Ali beat Foreman. Foreman beat Norton. Norton beat Ali.
Great Era.

Here I feel the blend of styles, personalities and approaches will allow a blend of mixed results between the top competitors which will make fo a historical and memorable era.

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Yes I totally agree and another one I think of is the fantastic 4, Duran beat leonard, Hearns KO'd Duran, Hagler KO'd Hearns, Leonard beat Hagler.

In Donnys example the only man to beat all the others was Ali and in mine it was Leonard and don't ask me why but I get the feeling that it could be Williams that has the beating of everyone else in this era (I'll avoid saying division as it could well go into various divisions as the above did). The fighters for me that we will be talking about could be:

Cotto
Margarito
Williams
Cintron
Judah

I think if Cotto wins, it reinforces his position as the number 1 welterweight in the world. If Margarito wins...then I don't know.

Actually I do know, if Margarito wins then I would have Paul Williams as the world's number 1 welterweight. He beat Margarito pretty decisively, and he lost once just like Margarito only he avenged his loss in 1 round. Margarito beat Cintron who he had already beat before and who I didn't rate higher then Quintana in the first place. That win didn't do much for me except give Margarito a good looking win in a good fight before a great fight. Don't think it meant much in the way of rankings. Certainly not more then Williams' destruction of Quintana.

If Margarito were to win (not happening but I'll humor everyone here), then I think a rematch with Williams would be in order and unless he shows something he never has before in this Cotto fight, I think he loses even more in a rematch.

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Originally Posted by rjj tszyu

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Originally Posted by hitmandonny

A truely great era for a division can be seen when any of the fighters have a chance of beating the others.

For example the heavies in the 70's.
Frazier was able to beat Ali once. Frazier could not beat Foreman. Ali beat Foreman. Foreman beat Norton. Norton beat Ali.
Great Era.

Here I feel the blend of styles, personalities and approaches will allow a blend of mixed results between the top competitors which will make fo a historical and memorable era.

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Yes I totally agree and another one I think of is the fantastic 4, Duran beat leonard, Hearns KO'd Duran, Hagler KO'd Hearns, Leonard beat Hagler.

In Donnys example the only man to beat all the others was Ali and in mine it was Leonard and don't ask me why but I get the feeling that it could be Williams that has the beating of everyone else in this era (I'll avoid saying division as it could well go into various divisions as the above did). The fighters for me that we will be talking about could be:

Cotto
Margarito
Williams
Cintron
Judah

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Very good example.
There were a few eras that could have produced this sort of great action, but never did because of promoters and managers.

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Originally Posted by OnixAA

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Originally Posted by ssss

Yep pretty much its no brainer although i still think Paul Williams has Antonio Margarito's number.

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You may wann look at the last few rounds of that fight to really be able to say he has his number.

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Paul Williams won the 12th round.

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Originally Posted by ssss

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Originally Posted by OnixAA

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Originally Posted by ssss

Yep pretty much its no brainer although i still think Paul Williams has Antonio Margarito's number.

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You may wann look at the last few rounds of that fight to really be able to say he has his number.

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Paul Williams won the 12th round.

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Yeah the 12th was the clincher for Paul

Anyways even if Tony wins this weekend ( which he wont ) he still has to avenge the loss to Paul b4 he can be considered the best