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The Case For A Super Heavyweight Division And A Few Ideas On How Boxing Might Be Saved
Ive been brave (or stupid) enough to bring this issue up in debate a good few times before now and i still feel that despite the obvious attractions to the current format, a change like this would be great for Heavyweight Boxing.
I for one am greatly against some of the disproportionate match ups that have been occurring since the late 90's.
I agree mate definitely about the upper weight limit, feel it would bring more athletiscm back 2 the hw's.
good point but these days you still get heavy athletic guys but they're over 6'6
If you create a super heavyweight division, it will water down the heavyweight division and make both insignificant. The Heavyweight division has so much history and should always be THE division.
if you need another weight class, ad it under the heavyweight division and push the heavyweights up:
Junior Crusierweight
or
Super Cruiserweight
This is true.
I always was too embarrassed to debate the necessity of a Super Cruiserweight division. ;D
And although the thought of a Junior Cruiserweight Division never crossed my mind, it probably makes the most sense!
I agree, the mismatches have nothing to do with the size, it's just the talent of the 210-220 guys isn't what it used to be. Holy/Tyson/Mercer of the late 80s-90s would be huge favourites against most of the juggernauts today, and comfortable favourites against the 'elite' of today namely the klitchkos. Coupled with the fact that Ibragimov and Chagaev (who wouldn't be top 10 15yrs ago) are competitive with the big fellas we just need to be patient for the skilled smaller guys to come through.Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
A much better idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
You have to look at the skill level of these fighters though, although massive in size and stature im pretty sure we would make a 15 stone 5,10" Mike Tyson favourite against either Klitschko;D
The fighters dont have the quality trainers to give them the skills, so you have lesser smaller heavys struggling against lesser large heavys, the larger heavys no matter how good will always have a disadvantage in speed and stamina as they have more weight to carry and need more oxygen, they arent as agile, im pretty sure all the eighties heavy champs have the beating of todays heavys, its not the size really, its just the skill, no one sems to be able to avoid a punch or throw a decent combination, the big eastern europeans have carried their successfull amature style through with them and its working but it doesngt involve alot of letting their hands go.
I could see an argument for a super-HW division only if the HW's were saturated with talent or if the 220 lbs HW could not compete with the giants in the division, but its not the case....except for Wlad Klitscko the other giants are garbage.
I would ask what benefit would splitting up an already weak division further?
Can't make things any worse....our heavyweight excitment hopes all ride on haye doing something big.....and that's sad.
Wlad can't MAKE the other guys fight him...I'm 100% sure if he was given a choice he'd rather fight Sam Peter or the WBA title holder and unify again.
And it's not really all Wlad's fault in the ring...I'll give you Sultan fight was boring but you have to agree Wlad fought smart, everyone was disappointed without the KO.
VS Ray Austin Wlad did what he was supposed to and showed how dominant he can be.
VS Thompson he was in with a tricky guy who didn't necessarily think he could win but he fought not to lose and his style made it tough of Wlad who has fought TWO SOUTHPAWS IN A ROW!!!
VS Povetkin I really hope Alexander comes to fight but it's going to be a bloodbath and we all know it, it's too much for Povetkin to take on this soon and it could end his career.
All Haye has done so far is TALK which ain't really helping anyone in the division.
IMO the amateur system has totally screwed up the bigger divisions
How do you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Im not disagreeing with you, i just want any excuse to validate my new found hatred for Amateur Boxing ;D
I think this would be a good answer too...Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
I mean it's difficult to point a finger at exactly what is making the heavyweight such a non event at the moment as a whole, and just as difficult to point a finger at a solution that will bring it back to it's glory days...
Honestly I have to say that the H/W division is mainly dominated by height/reach and a bit of technique, rather than fire, brimstone, muscle, endurance, heart, skill, gameplan, experience etc that has defined the heavyweight division of the past...
It's needs the characters and the athletes of the past. I don't know where they are all hiding, but it's as if we're heading into an era where the lower divisions are going to take all the money and glory, and the heavyweight division is going to turn into a ghost town..
There is more money these days for all levels of the sport, where in the past it really did pay to be in the heavyweight division...
Being the "Heavyweight Champion of the World" was the crowning glory of boxing. The highest accalade of the sport... It took a mighty person to hold a Heavyweight belt, and an unforgetable person to keep it...... The heavyweight champion would be known to every person, sports fan or not..
But that past glory has all but faded out of a dieing division...
Tell me the last year you remember where you were more excited about a heavyweight matchup in that year than you were for a matchup in the lower levels?
Even though i'm not a giant Wlad fan either, I agree that it is absolutely not his fault also that the entire rest of the division is boring... It would be equally sad to blame the lacklustre appeal of the HW division on Wlad..Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
We just need 4 or 5 challenges with the determination to bring themselves to 100% of their potential and make for a division that is exciting... It's just not there... And not Wlad's fault... If we had any truely great heavyweights, they could step in the ring with Wlad and make it an exciting fight.... Just those type of challengers are all but gone right now..
Well to begin with amateur boxing is MORE corrupt than professional boxing and we don't get the best fighters in the Olympics, for example Henry Tillman got to go to the Olympics over Mike Tyson. 5 judges and 3 of the judges have to hit a button within X amount of seconds of each other to score a point....Did Teddy Atlas come up with this system?!?!? Just BOX and get people from different countries to say who won the round, no fucking points for slapping somebody!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by JimafeeHow do you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Im not disagreeing with you, i just want any excuse to validate my new found hatred for Amateur Boxing ;D
Also Olympic style boxing isn't so much BOXING as it is a toughman competition with guys who trained properly and can last a few rounds.
This type of fighting allows for pure boxers to develop and chinny power punchers as the number of times you hit someone matters and not how hard so the pure boxers just slap and circle and the power punchers walk through the slapping until they walk into another power puncher. So the boxers aren't taught to punch and the punchers aren't taught to box.
I think if at least the American Olympic team was trained to win professional fights then they would dominate the Olympics because the professional style is hit and don't get hit and work towards KO-ing your opponent. Right now it's just stand in the middle of the ring and throw punches like your little sister would. There's no damn reason that the Americans should have done this poorly in the Olympics in boxing a sport which we along with Cuba and Russia have OWNED.....it's fucking ridiculous and it's no doubt the reason for our issues in the heavyweight division right now.
Look at the fighters right now and see who's doing the best...it's the guys with little to no amateur experience that more often do better as opposed to the way it was let's say 20 years ago.
The progression of US Olympic heavyweights from Joe Frazier and George Foreman to heavyweight/superheavyweights Jason "Big Six' Estrada and Devin Vargas ...it's fucking ridiculous and further proves my point.