If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
We keep hearing about how poor Calzaghe's record is and that he's not really an elite fighter.
However to those who say this please tell me all the guys out there with a better record amongst the currenty p4p lot.
I mean we have Pavlik, who beat Taylor twice and Miranda but got completely exposed by BHop. Is his record better?
Mijares, who beat Jorge Arce, Alexander Munoz and some other fighters I've mostly never heard of. Is his record better?
Ivan Calderon, double weight champ, beat Hugo Cazares twice, what about his record?
Margarito, huge win over Cotto, destroyed Cintron twice. But has losses to Santos twice, and Paul Williams. I won't count his early losses. Is his record better?
Isreal Vazquez. Fought a great trilogy with R Marquez, losing once but winning twice. Got a great come from behind win over Jhonny Gonzalez and knocked out Oscar Larios although he was himself KO'd by Larios earlier on too. His record any better?
Miguel Cotto. Impressive wins over Malignaggi, Quintana, Judah and Mosely but was badly beaten by Margarito. Not yet risen to the top in any weight class. His record better?
JM Marquez. A great fighter, probably the best resume of any fighter on this list.
Has dominated 3 weight classes, had two very disputed results against the worlds best current fighter and also beat Barrera.
However his best results, against Pacquiao were technically a draw and a loss. He won a close fight against Barrera in which the judging was way off. He lost to little known Chris John recently and his win over Casamayor although impressive has to be seen in the light of Casamayor being a fraction of the fighter he once was, following a string of uninspiring performances.
So now look at Calzaghe, who unlike all of those above is completely unbeaten, never lost a fight. He beat B Hopkins who even at 43 was still in the top 10 p4p according to the Ring magazine, something that Casamayor certainly was not. Barrera it can be said has slipped a lot more than Hopkins as well. I wouldn't personally rate wins over Barrera and Casamayor higher than wins over a prime Kessler and a still effective B Hopkins.
I belive Calzaghe's resume is better than all of the guy's above.
I didn;t mention B Hop or Manny because I agree Calzaghe's record isn't as hot as those two guys but of all the others in the current top 10 p4p Calzaghe's record is better imo.
Thoughts?
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
I'm not sure if the argument for or against joe is ever going to be settled, those for calzagehe are going to support him no matter what and those who dislike him are going to no matter what. I just wish he would've started this push towards U.S. fights a little bit earlier, i doubt a fight is going to ever happen that will sway anyone to the other side. Some good arguments for both against and for the guy.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Thing is fighters such as Pavlik and Cotto are both young fighters but they are willing to take risks now Pavlik lost to Hopkins and Cotto to Margarito but at least these young fighters are going for it. Calzaghe is in his late 30's unbeaten in 45 fights but he has only just started taking risks and is last 2 risks have been against fighters past there best Hopkins and Jones even if Hopkins has just beaten Pavlik he still isn't at his best. Calzaghe could have learned a lot from fighters like Pavlik and Cotto risk takers wanting big fights tough fights not clinging on to there unbeaten records.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Bilbo I don't know how you say Cotto got badly beaten by Margarito. The first 6 rounds he took Margarito to school.
ALL of those guys have better resumes than Calzaghe's IMO bar Calderon.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonbruno
Thing is fighters such as Pavlik and Cotto are both young fighters but they are willing to take risks now Pavlik lost to Hopkins and Cotto to Margarito but at least these young fighters are going for it. Calzaghe is in his late 30's unbeaten in 45 fights but he has only just started taking risks and is last 2 risks have been against fighters past there best Hopkins and Jones even if Hopkins has just beaten Pavlik he still isn't at his best. Calzaghe could have learned a lot from fighters like Pavlik and Cotto risk takers wanting big fights tough fights not clinging on to there unbeaten records.
Calzaghe beat Eubank as a young fighter let's not forget that.
Also look at B Hop. He didn't get his first signifcant fight until he fought the welterweight Trinidad in 2001 at the age of 36, the same age Calzaghe is now!
Calzaghe is actually ahead of Hopkins. At this age Hopkins had only fought Trinidad, Calzaghe already has wins over Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins and is fighting another legend in Roy Jones next month.
Hagler didnt' get any big fights until he was past 30 either.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Ok he beat Eubank as a young fighter but then what did he do he didn't take a risk till he fought Lacy.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
Bilbo I don't know how you say Cotto got badly beaten by Margarito. The first 6 rounds he took Margarito to school.
ALL of those guys have better resumes than Calzaghe's IMO bar Calderon.
So being knocked out and having your corner throw in the towel isn't being badly beaten? :rolleyes:
After the fight Bunce, Watt and Spencer Oliver all said they thing Cotto may now be totally ruined by such a brutal loss yet you don't think it was even a beating :-\
So wins over Munoz and Arce are better than Kessler, Hopkins, Lacy and Eubank?
Your hate is blinding you lefty.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
leftylee
Bilbo I don't know how you say Cotto got badly beaten by Margarito. The first 6 rounds he took Margarito to school.
ALL of those guys have better resumes than Calzaghe's IMO bar Calderon.
So being knocked out and having your corner throw in the towel isn't being badly beaten? :rolleyes:
After the fight Bunce, Watt and Spencer Oliver all said they thing Cotto may now be totally ruined by such a brutal loss yet you don't think it was even a beating :-\
So wins over Munoz and Arce are better than Kessler, Hopkins, Lacy and Eubank?
Your hate is blinding you lefty.
Since when did you take any notice of Steve Bunce?
And forget them 3 "Experts". Cotto looked fabulous in the first 6 rounds. After the 6 rounds his nose and cuts combined with Margarito's relentless pressure caught up to him. No shame in losing to Margarito.
And yes I would rather have Jose Navarro, Jorge Arce and Alex Munoz on my resume.
Rather than an overhyped, one-dimesnional Jeff Lacy, Mikkel Kessler, a 43yr old grandad Nard Hopkins and a shot Chris Eubank.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonbruno
Thing is fighters such as Pavlik and Cotto are both young fighters but they are willing to take risks now Pavlik lost to Hopkins and Cotto to Margarito but at least these young fighters are going for it. Calzaghe is in his late 30's unbeaten in 45 fights but he has only just started taking risks and is last 2 risks have been against fighters past there best Hopkins and Jones even if Hopkins has just beaten Pavlik he still isn't at his best. Calzaghe could have learned a lot from fighters like Pavlik and Cotto risk takers wanting big fights tough fights not clinging on to there unbeaten records.
Calzaghe beat Eubank as a young fighter let's not forget that.
Also look at B Hop. He didn't get his first signifcant fight until he fought the welterweight Trinidad in 2001 at the age of 36, the same age Calzaghe is now!
Calzaghe is actually ahead of Hopkins. At this age Hopkins had only fought Trinidad, Calzaghe already has wins over Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins and is fighting another legend in Roy Jones next month.
Hagler didnt' get any big fights until he was past 30 either.
how the fuk is calzaghe ahead of hopkins. frm 40 and up he fought Taylor twice, Tarver, Wright, Calslappy, and Pavlik. just those 4 not including JOKE are way better than calzaghe has ever faced and joe is like wat 36-37 and Bhop is past 40 and is fighting PRIMEFIGHTERS unlike JOE.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingfrnk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonbruno
Thing is fighters such as Pavlik and Cotto are both young fighters but they are willing to take risks now Pavlik lost to Hopkins and Cotto to Margarito but at least these young fighters are going for it. Calzaghe is in his late 30's unbeaten in 45 fights but he has only just started taking risks and is last 2 risks have been against fighters past there best Hopkins and Jones even if Hopkins has just beaten Pavlik he still isn't at his best. Calzaghe could have learned a lot from fighters like Pavlik and Cotto risk takers wanting big fights tough fights not clinging on to there unbeaten records.
Calzaghe beat Eubank as a young fighter let's not forget that.
Also look at B Hop. He didn't get his first signifcant fight until he fought the welterweight Trinidad in 2001 at the age of 36, the same age Calzaghe is now!
Calzaghe is actually ahead of Hopkins. At this age Hopkins had only fought Trinidad, Calzaghe already has wins over Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins and is fighting another legend in Roy Jones next month.
Hagler didnt' get any big fights until he was past 30 either.
how the fuk is calzaghe ahead of hopkins. frm 40 and up he fought Taylor twice, Tarver, Wright, Calslappy, and Pavlik. just those 4 not including JOKE are way better than calzaghe has ever faced and joe is like wat 36-37 and Bhop is past
40 and is fighting PRIMEFIGHTERS unlike JOE.
Read it again carefully I said Calzaghe is ahead of Hopkins compared to where he was at the same age.
Hopkins got his megafight against Trinidad at age 36. The same age as Joe is now.
Now go and look at B Hops resume up until the age of 36 and compare it with Calzaghe's
Calzaghe's resume is as good if not better than Hopkins was at age 36.
Go and have a look if you don't believe me.
Trinidad, Oscar, Tarver, Pavlik, Wright, all of those fights he was older than Calzahghe is now
What I'm saying is that B Hop won his resect even later in life than what Joe is doing.
If you just looked at B Hops record up until age 36 and the Trinidad fight, who did he beat? ;)
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Mayweather
Delahoya
Jones
Toney
Lewis
To name a few
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kingfrnk
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Calzaghe beat Eubank as a young fighter let's not forget that.
Also look at B Hop. He didn't get his first signifcant fight until he fought the welterweight Trinidad in 2001 at the age of 36, the same age Calzaghe is now!
Calzaghe is actually ahead of Hopkins. At this age Hopkins had only fought Trinidad, Calzaghe already has wins over Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins and is fighting another legend in Roy Jones next month.
Hagler didnt' get any big fights until he was past 30 either.
how the fuk is calzaghe ahead of hopkins. frm 40 and up he fought Taylor twice, Tarver, Wright, Calslappy, and Pavlik. just those 4 not including JOKE are way better than calzaghe has ever faced and joe is like wat 36-37 and Bhop is past
40 and is fighting PRIMEFIGHTERS unlike JOE.
Read it again carefully I said Calzaghe is ahead of Hopkins compared to where he was at the same age.
Hopkins got his megafight against Trinidad at age 36. The same age as Joe is now.
Now go and look at B Hops resume up until the age of 36 and compare it with Calzaghe's
Calzaghe's resume is as good if not better than Hopkins was at
age 36.
Go and have a look if you don't believe me.
Trinidad, Oscar, Tarver, Pavlik, Wright, all of those fights he was older than Calzahghe is now
What I'm saying is that B Hop won his resect even later in life than what Joe is doing.
If you just looked at B Hops record
up until age 36 and the Trinidad fight, who did he beat? ;)
yea but bhop was in jail to so dont forget that. bhop even said it himself that why people keep asking bhop why are u still fighting and bhop said people dont remember that I lost years of fighting because I WAS IN JAIL.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonbruno
Thing is fighters such as Pavlik and Cotto are both young fighters but they are willing to take risks now Pavlik lost to Hopkins and Cotto to Margarito but at least these young fighters are going for it. Calzaghe is in his late 30's unbeaten in 45 fights but he has only just started taking risks and is last 2 risks have been against fighters past there best Hopkins and Jones even if Hopkins has just beaten Pavlik he still isn't at his best. Calzaghe could have learned a lot from fighters like Pavlik and Cotto risk takers wanting big fights tough fights not clinging on to there unbeaten records.
Calzaghe beat Eubank as a young fighter let's not forget that.
Also look at B Hop. He didn't get his first signifcant fight until he fought the welterweight Trinidad in 2001 at the age of 36, the same age Calzaghe is now!
Calzaghe is actually ahead of Hopkins. At this age Hopkins had only fought Trinidad, Calzaghe already has wins over Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins and is fighting another legend in Roy Jones next month.
Hagler didnt' get any big fights until he was past 30 either.
Bilbo do you realize how much of an underdog Bernard Hopkins was against Felix Trinidad ? and do you know Felix Trinidad was being compared to SRR. And was very high in the P4P rankings ?
Bernard Hopkins also beat Antwun Echols x2 who beat Charles Brewer, which is one of Joe Calzaghe's better wins, and also a win over Keith Holmes who dominated a young Richie Woodhall, which is also one of Joe Calzaghe's better wins.
Also aren't you forgetting Glen Johnson, John David Jackson, Simon Brown, ETC. they are all solid wins.
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ICB
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tysonbruno
Thing is fighters such as Pavlik and Cotto are both young fighters but they are willing to take risks now Pavlik lost to Hopkins and Cotto to Margarito but at least these young fighters are going for it. Calzaghe is in his late 30's unbeaten in 45 fights but he has only just started taking risks and is last 2 risks have been against fighters past there best Hopkins and Jones even if Hopkins has just beaten Pavlik he still isn't at his best. Calzaghe could have learned a lot from fighters like Pavlik and Cotto risk takers wanting big fights tough fights not clinging on to there unbeaten records.
Calzaghe beat Eubank as a young fighter let's not forget that.
Also look at B Hop. He didn't get his first signifcant fight until he fought the welterweight Trinidad in 2001 at the age of 36, the same age Calzaghe is now!
Calzaghe is actually ahead of Hopkins. At this age Hopkins had only fought Trinidad, Calzaghe already has wins over Eubank, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins and is fighting another legend in Roy Jones next month.
Hagler didnt' get any big fights until he was past 30 either.
Bilbo do you realize how much of an underdog Bernard Hopkins was against Felix Trinidad ? and do you know Felix Trinidad was being compared to SRR. And was very high in the P4P rankings ?
Bernard Hopkins also beat Antwun Echols x2 who beat Charles Brewer, which is one of Joe Calzaghe's better wins, and also a win over Keith Holmes who dominated a young Richie Woodhall, which is also one of Joe Calzaghe's better wins.
Also aren't you forgetting Glen Johnson, John David Jackson, Simon Brown, ETC. they are all solid wins.
This isn't about B Hop though Ice, you'll notice he's not in my list of fighters.
i'll ask you again, who, of the fighters I mentioned in the current p4p list has a better resume than Calzaghe and why?
Re: If Calzaghe's record is so bad, whose is better?
To be fair Calzaghe is at the end of his career, wait a little bit for guys like Cotto, and rest, but what about Marquez and Vazquez they have a list of healthy competition. Margarito doesn't have the same resume as Calzaghe but its pretty good. Winky Wright who I think is still in top 10 p4p contention has a better resume then Calzaghe.
But if you go by age Cotto is way ahead in competition if not almost equal regardless in terms of competition with Calzaghe.
Magarito is close as well, especially if he faces Mosley.
