Why I think PBF beats PAC

MOVEMENT.

PBF likes to stand in the pocket and use is should and straight righthand. I'm not certain that this is the best tactic for him against PAC. PAC seems to have some difficutly cutting the ring off. If you look at the Cotto fight you'll notice that when Cotto moved around and use his jab he was pretty damn effective. He was able to land shots and make PAC miss and Miss badley at times. When he stop moving he got hit. Freddie Roach even told PAC he needed to do a better job of cutting the ring off. He tends to just follow guys around.

Now back to PBF. PBF is a far better mover and defensive fighter than Cotto. He's also faster than cotto. Even if we say PAC has faster hands than PBF(which he may very have) just like PAC has faster hands than cotto, PBF is still plenty fast enough to land clean punches. I didn't say effective because nothing seems to effect PAC. PAC has fought some good world class fighters but none off them can move and use defense like PBF.

I would love to see PAC get PBF on the ropes so i can see PBF do the his shoulder roll.

Shoulder roll doesn't work the same against straight lefts, its built for right handers throwing straight right hands.

Your sort of correct.

True the shoulder roll is best suited against a righthanded fighter but it's sole purpose isn't just to defend against the righthand. The shoulderroll is use to roll away, roll with, or block/catch any punch that is thown at you.


Now yes it is more effective against righthand fighters but i've seen him use it against southpaws and he seemed to do just find. I wouldn't advise him doing it to much but i think it could make for some exciting moments. Like i said his best bet is to box and move.

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Shoulder roll doesn't work the same against straight lefts, its built for right handers throwing straight right hands.

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With someone who likes to square up when he throws like Pac, I can easily see the shoulder roll, straight right having a devastating effect on Manny. Who knows, maybe Mayweather can switch it up and shoulder roll from the other side.

Pac's newly developed right hook is going to give the shoulder roll problems, and potentially set up hard straight lefts against PBF. This is part of what is so interesting about this fight...they are such polar opposites in every way and a thing like a lead right hook is not something you spend your career learning how to defend.

I think Floyd Mayweather Jr basically wins, because of what JMM done to Manny Pacquiao twice. I think people are forgetting these fights, and remember the 2nd fight was the improved Manny Pacquiao, JMM still managed to counter punch effectively. And offset Manny Pacquiao's rhythm with movement.

Even Erik Morales done this effectively, although he was far more aggressive. And i know people are going to say well that wasn't a prime Manny Pacquiao, which is true. But it wasn't a prime Erik Morales either, especially in the last 2 fights, after he was humilated by Zahir Raheem.

I think even Miguel Cotto had success when he boxed, the fact is the way to beat Manny Pacquiao is making him come to you. Manny Pacquiao's last 4 opponents have all been coming straight at him, trying to exchange punches with a guy who is x2 as fast, which isn't a good idea.

Even look at the 2nd MAB fight, i thought MAB was doing well with his defensive fighting and moving around the ring. But he was too cautious and too past his prime to really fight effectively.

But i think MAB showed the gameplan, and so did JMM. And also obviously Erik Morales, but obviously Floyd Mayweather won't fight as agressively as Erik Morales. Even Oscar Larios who moved up two weight classes to fight Manny Pacquiao, went 12 rounds using movement. And even had some success badly stunning Manny Pacquiao in the 3rd round.

But despite all that i just think Floyd Mayweather Jr, can do pretty much everything better than JMM, plus he won't get hit as much because his defense is far superior Floyd Mauweather Jr by UD.

I think Floyd beats Pacquiao by UD and quite clearly also.

Mayweather's counter punching ability, footwork and defense will be too much for Pacquiao to handle.

I would want Pacquiao to win though.

Everyone counts Pacquiao out of every fight of late, and he prooves people wrong time and time again......this will be no different. The biggest heart in boxing climbs the Mayweather mountain with a combination of speed, movement, agressviness and will to win, and enters the top 5 greatest of all time!

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Shoulder roll doesn't work the same against straight lefts, its built for right handers throwing straight right hands.

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Yeah your right, he never does it with southpaws.

ICE, the pac that fought JMM in the second fight has developed even further skillwise with added size and strength while retaining 98% of his speed

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Originally Posted by Kel

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Shoulder roll doesn't work the same against straight lefts, its built for right handers throwing straight right hands.

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Yeah your right, he never does it with southpaws.

ICE, the pac that fought JMM in the second fight has developed even further skillwise with added size and strength while retaining 98% of his speed

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well said. Ice is also forgetting how Pac had developed since his last fight against Marquez.

Ice is also forgetting that Pac would have won against marquez in their first fight had one of the judges not made an error. Marquez was also saved by the bell in his second fight with Pac.

Anyway, this is why Pac vs Mayweather is very exciting. Personally, I consider it as exciting as Pac vs Cotto. :cool:

i don't think PBF will be using the shoulder roll all that much in this fight. just a tight guard. i hope to see him engage.

Will you guys stop with the shoulder role. That was just me speaking about what could be an excitement moment in the fight. I wasn't saying it was going to win him the fight. Even still i can't think of one fight were he didn't use some form of his shoulder role defense. He might not of layed on the ropes but he did use it.

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Originally Posted by brucelee

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Originally Posted by Kel

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Originally Posted by OumaFan

Shoulder roll doesn't work the same against straight lefts, its built for right handers throwing straight right hands.

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Yeah your right, he never does it with southpaws.

ICE, the pac that fought JMM in the second fight has developed even further skillwise with added size and strength while retaining 98% of his speed

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well said. Ice is also forgetting how Pac had developed since his last fight against Marquez.

Ice is also forgetting that Pac would have won against marquez in their first fight had one of the judges not made an error. Marquez was also saved by the bell in his second fight with Pac.

Anyway, this is why Pac vs Mayweather is very exciting. Personally, I consider it as exciting as Pac vs Cotto. :cool:

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Im not forgetting anything i think JMM beat Manny Pacquiao twice, forgetting that the judge made an error. That wouldn't change my mind that i thought JMM won. And wasn't Manny Pacquiao saved by the bell in there 2nd fight aswell ? he was on the verge of going down in the 2nd round of there 2nd fight.

Also Manny Pacquiao has only looked better. because of the type of opponents he has been fighting. David Diaz is a one dimensional brawler, ODLH come forward but he was a zombie because he was weight drained.

Ricky Hatton had no defense and has seen better days, and again he come forward. And lastly Miguel Cotto also come forward trying to exchange punches with a much faster opponent.

All these opponents forgetting if they were shot or ETC. All made the mistake of coming forward, trying to impose there strength. On a opponent which is much faster, and i don't care how strong you are speed kills.

And i don't think personally Manny Pacquiao has looked any better, since the JMM fight. I just think JMM style wise is a bad fight for him, he circles in the right direction to avoid his left hand.

He has great timing which beats speed, he is a great counter puncher, he has a great straight right hand a Southpaw's biggest weakness. And best of all he doesn't come forward. He makes Manny Pacquiao lead which is the way to beat him, which is how Erik Morales beat him.

And thats why Floyd Mayweather Jr will beat him, and also because Floyd Mayweather does everything pretty much better than JMM, including the most important thing "Defense" which has let JMM down in his two fights with Manny Pacquiao.

Pacquiao is not the adaptable fighter that floyd mayweather is. Pac's main skill is making others fight his fight.

Eric Morales adapted after a couple of rounds and then boxed pac to an easy decision. pac could not adapt to Eric's change of stratagy. Due to age and weight Morales wasn't able to employ the same stratagy in fights two and three.

Similar story in both fights with Marquez. If it hadn't been for Juan's lapses in concentration and the Mexican addiction to having a brawl Marquez could have done those fights easier. But again Pac had very little answer for a very good back foot counter puncher.

Pac then went on to fight a weight drained corpse by the name of De La Hoya. Oscar couldn't have done a hit and move stratagy even if he'd wanted to.

Ricky Hatton, Ricky had already been Ko'd by Mayweather and has now admited to 'having the worst training camp in his career.' By his own admission Ricky wanted to get the fight over and done with and although he'd left his best work in the gym he still believed that with on big punch he could beat pac. And thats what he went for, he steamed in their to get that one big punch, that style is like a christmas present for Pac.

Miguel Cotto. It was an interesting start. Miguel was seriously hurt/damaged by the half way mark, and this was where he decided to get on his bike. He went on the back foot and moved. Pac got visibly frustrated by this and didn't really know what to do other than chase. Due to the amount of damage sustained and fatigue Cotto ran out of steam and could no longer keep out of the way.

Floyd Mayweather is the best back foot fighting counter puncher on the planet, maybe of all time. He is in amazing condition and doesn't get tired, 12 rounds is nothing to him. Floyd can adapt to anyone, and he can manipulate a fighter to fight his fight. He can frustrate even the most ice cold boxers.

I think Floyd will/would beat Paquioa if they meet, and I think it's possible that he could even make manny look a bit silly in the process.

Not that I'd count pac out, he's got a massive punch, and he is always in great great condition. I think though his style plays in to floyds hands where as floyds style gives pac nightmeres.

My money would be on floyd.

and may I just say - welcome home HF. :)