Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
BBC News - US cartoonist apologises over Facebook Muhammad row
I know this is another thread in the same vein as the flag t-shirts one and the one where the Muslims got angry about some guy who was trying to make a point about free speech, but I thought I would start another one and include a poll.
First off as in intelligent rational human being, I cannot bring myself to follow any kind of organised religion. I think religion has always existed as a means for those who desire power to try and maintain control and influence over the general population. It's interesting that they have continued to wield such influence despite our ability to understand the world around us ever more clearly. In a few hundred years we have gone from thinking the earth was flat and that we were the centre of the universe to realising that we are a miniscule globe in an ever expanding universe. Science has given us so much knowledge, and yet we cling to these peculiar faiths where logic and reason are largely absent. 'Take the leap of faith with me and you will get to heaven'...yeah right. What does this have to do with the prophet Mohammad? Well not too much in a direct sense, but I'm just trying to get across my general perception that organised religion is quite absurd. I don't believe in god and I certainly don't care about fanciful notions of going to heaven. Not that I care too much if others choose to follow a particular faith, that is their choice, but it does bother me when satire and cartoons can be used as the springboard to threaten death upon others.
Now this brings me onto this ongoing controversy about the problems with the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad. It's something that I find difficult to get my head around. Even if I was a Muslim, with my liberal sensibilities, I would find it very hard to get upset by an image of a human being. After all wasn't Mohammad just a messenger who was spreading the word of god? The christians seem much more chilled about this kind of thing. We see images of Jesus everywhere. Admittedly, they are probably not a good likeness with the blue eyes and snow white skin, but people are on the whole quite comfortable with the image. It isn't upsetting anyone nor are christians hacking people down with axes. The Muslims seem so much more more sensitive about things and are seemingly so much more inclined towards violence. There are protests and calls to murder if you draw a cartoon or try and put a face towards this mysterious figure.
Is it only me that finds this completely nuts? I am obviously not a religious man, but I find it downright strange how savage and simple some people can be when you dare to mock their religion or pass comment in a way that they deem unnaceptable. Religion is absurd, but so too is life and I really think that satire and comedy are some of the best ways of coming to terms with things. To get angry and want to hurt others over it is really weak IMO and makes me think very negatively about the intolerance of such a faith.
Thought
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
I suppose the Christians took it one step further by going along with the notion that Jesus was actually the son of god and not just a messenger with delusions of grandeur. In that sense there are obvious distinctions between Mohammad and Jesus, so it shouldn't be taken to seem like a direct parallel. But they were both messengers.
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
I agree, religion is absurd, but it plays an important role in society.
However people choose to follow it and dedicate their life to it so those people are likely to get offended by certain things, which publicly humiliates their religion. Some people can see the funny side of a joke, some can't. However, the media will never ever report on how a group of Muslims laughed their tits off at the drawing of Mohammad's, or how a Muslim boy Sky +'d that episode of South Park to watch with all of his Muslim mates.
There are batshit crazy Christians out there and batshit crazy Jews. It's just how the world is. If we were fighting a war in a predominantly Jewish country, i guarantee we'd be reading about all of the crazy things certain Jews get up to. As it stands there's no public interest in 'Crazy Jew' stories. It wouldn't sell as well as a headline with the word 'Mulsim' in it.
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
No they shouldnt
Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins ;D;D;D
PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch ;D;D;D
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HattonTheHammer
No they shouldnt
Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins ;D;D;D
PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch ;D;D;D
It's 72. ;D
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
I don't see how being ignorant towards the feelings of those who hold religion dear is any more reasonable though.
Fair enough religion is not important to you but it is to them so why offend them by creating caricatures and drawings in the first place?
Respect should be mutual.
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HattonTheHammer
No they shouldnt
Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins ;D;D;D
PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch ;D;D;D
It's 72. ;D
once you`ve trawled your way through 70 odd your really not gonna be in any position to take care of the last 2
Id be fucked after about 6, by 10 id be in physical pain and by 15 id probably of re-died in which case id have to start right from number 1 again ;D;D;D
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HattonTheHammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HattonTheHammer
No they shouldnt
Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins ;D;D;D
PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch ;D;D;D
It's 72. ;D
once you`ve trawled your way through 70 odd your really not gonna be in any position to take care of the last 2
Id be fucked after about 6, by 10 id be in physical pain and by 15 id probably of re-died in which case id have to start right from number 1 again ;D;D;D
It's a never ending cycle. A few of them will be fatties as well.
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HattonTheHammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HattonTheHammer
No they shouldnt
Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins ;D;D;D
PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch ;D;D;D
It's 72. ;D
once you`ve trawled your way through 70 odd your really not gonna be in any position to take care of the last 2
Id be fucked after about 6, by 10 id be in physical pain and by 15 id probably of re-died in which case id have to start right from number 1 again ;D;D;D
It's a never ending cycle. A few of them will be fatties as well.
no doubt
id love to know how mohammed devised 72, wonder if someone suggested 68 and mohammed was all like "are you a retard or something, the perfect number of virgins is 72 innit";D;D;D
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
What a surprise more muslim rubbish all they seem to do is cause trouble! EDL!
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ono
I agree, religion is absurd, but it plays an important role in society.
However people choose to follow it and dedicate their life to it so those people are likely to get offended by certain things, which publicly humiliates their religion. Some people can see the funny side of a joke, some can't. However, the media will never ever report on how a group of Muslims laughed their tits off at the drawing of Mohammad's, or how a Muslim boy Sky +'d that episode of South Park to watch with all of his Muslim mates.
There are batshit crazy Christians out there and batshit crazy Jews. It's just how the world is. If we were fighting a war in a predominantly Jewish country, i guarantee we'd be reading about all of the crazy things certain Jews get up to. As it stands there's no public interest in 'Crazy Jew' stories. It wouldn't sell as well as a headline with the word 'Mulsim' in it.
Yes, it's not only the Muslims that go crazy, but in this particular instance it is about them. I agree, that there are loonies following all types of religions who make a bad name for themselves. I am sure there are a lot of peaceful Muslims that probably couldn't give a shit about this whole whole carry on and good on them too. This whole carry on is so silly to me. Banning You Tube and what have you, it's so extreme. I mean, can't people decide for themselves? Death threats are always liable to get in the news though no matter what the faith. Unfortunately when it comes to the Jews it usually concerns actual killings which are actually carried out by Israeli government orders.
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Muslims are a very committed bunch of people, and insulting Muhammad to them is the equivalent to someone insulting a parent of ours. They literally treat him like a Father, it is not just words.
I disagree with their hostility at times, but again, from what I have been told, the Qur'an pretty much teaches hostility in the name of protecting the religion. Of course, I've never read the Qur'an, so I'm not sure to what extent... but a Muslim friend of mine says it is clear.
On another point, I do think Muslims need to accept that when they move beyond Islamic countries, they will be in the firing line at times due to conflicts of beliefs. Much like homosexuals that travel to Iran cannot exhibit passionate public displays of their love, Muslims need to accept that in other countries this is the norm... as is freedom of speech in regards to religion and all things. Again, I think a little restraint would benefit them a lot in such situations...
The Lars Vilks situation is an example of someone almost making a living off mocking people's beliefs (being a douche) and also an example of unacceptable levels of violence and hostility in response, the likes of which cross the line in regards to protest.
So all in all, I think Bilbo's point about mutual respect comes into play. It has to be give and take really!
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I don't see how being ignorant towards the feelings of those who hold religion dear is any more reasonable though.
Fair enough religion is not important to you but it is to them so why offend them by creating caricatures and drawings in the first place?
Respect should be mutual.
No, religion isn't important to me. But I will respect any person who follows their faith and more so if they are decent and don't try to push it onto me. I know two Christians, not too closely mind, and religion is simply not part of the conversation. It's not very relevant.
You are a man that understands humour, Bilbo. You have made plenty of tasteless jokes in the past and that is what a lot of humour is based upon. If you were so concerned about offending people then you would just be Mr PC 24/7. But you are not, so I find it a little strange that you would be so opposed to a silly cartoon making a satirical point about something. In this instance there might not even be any humour mocking the religion, but simply an image of this human that apparently spread the word of god.
It's a huge overreaction to be banning a peoples site such as You Tube and have loads of people protesting about it. It's like christians getting upset by Monty Python's Life of Brian all those years back and everybody now loves it! Maybe Muslims need something done to cover some of their background...though I fear it might end in WW3! :-\
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bilbo
I don't see how being ignorant towards the feelings of those who hold religion dear is any more reasonable though.
Fair enough religion is not important to you but it is to them so why offend them by creating caricatures and drawings in the first place?
Respect should be mutual.
No, religion isn't important to me. But I will respect any person who follows their faith and more so if they are decent and don't try to push it onto me. I know two Christians, not too closely mind, and religion is simply not part of the conversation. It's not very relevant.
You are a man that understands humour, Bilbo. You have made plenty of tasteless jokes in the past and that is what a lot of humour is based upon.
If you were so concerned about offending people then you would just be Mr PC 24/7. But you are not, so I find it a little strange that you would be so opposed to a silly cartoon making a satirical point about something. In this instance there might not even be any humour mocking the religion, but simply an image of this human that apparently spread the word of god.
It's a huge overreaction to be banning a peoples site such as You Tube and have loads of people protesting about it. It's like christians getting upset by Monty Python's Life of Brian all those years back and everybody now loves it! Maybe Muslims need something done to cover some of their background...though I fear it might end in WW3! :-\
There is a difference about joking on a private forum and publicly offending though. I wouldnt write about my lust for Dakota Fanning in a newspaper for example or give my analysis of why the blacks allowed themselves to be enslaved.
I see no problem in hattonthehammer drawing pictures of Muhammad blowing goats in his own home but I would object to some Western twat creating Southpark style cartoons to lampoon them and then moan about what fundamentalists they are.
Muslims dont like having their faith mocked, and Westerners dont like their civilians being blown up. Just respect each other's points of view and everything would be fine.
Re: Why would anybody get upset by the drawn image of the prophet Mohammad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HattonTheHammer
No they shouldnt
Its 2010 and we still arent able to actually show an image of a particular person. If i wanna draw mohammed squating over paris hilton i`ll do so and if anyones got a problem with that i`ll happily send them to their 70 odd virgins ;D;D;D
PS:On a trip with the west ham boys to bradford a few years back we drove past a cricket pitch that had a sign up saying "muslims only". We jumped over the gate and each took turns pissing on the cricket pitch ;D;D;D
loving the new sig mr hatton
