Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
I can't seem to understand how Marquez would be a greater threat to Manny than Shane at 147. I think Shane would beat the crap out of JMM at welterweight. I know styles make fights, but Shane has the tools to make Manny have a hard fight.
The guys that have troubled Shane are pure boxers, he relies on speed too much, and he doesn't jab or land particulalry well on elusive targets, in fact his output and accuracy drop dramatically on good defensive fighters who tie him up on the inside, but Manny isn't that type of fighter. Shane might not be quite as fast as Manny, but he is faster than anyone Manny has faced, he hits harder than anyone Manny has faced, and Manny isn't a defensive fighter. Sure I would pick Manny to win, but Mosley's style actually presents a lot of problems for Manny.
1. Body punching: Besides Cotto who didn't really go to the body against Manny, I haven't seen a more impressive body puncher fight Manny, even the three mexican greats. This is a guy who can hurt true 154 pounders to the body.
2. Speed: Mosley still has tremendous speed, I think it didn't show against a guy like Mayweather because he doesn't let you get into rhythm. Manny besides using his offense doesn't really stop you from throwing punches, he kind of plays a game where you throw punches then he responds with a deadly combination, but he usually has had a substantial speed advantage which he wouldn't have against Shane, and unlike anyone Manny has ever faced at an elite level, Shane also has pretty quick in and out movement despite his age.
3. Power: Shane knocked Margarito out, he's consistently stopped 154 pounders, he doesn't hit opponents with every shot as hard as Cotto does, but he has the type of power where he can land a game changing shot at any moment. He has a lot more power than Margarito when he lands solidly, and like I said he uses that power to the body.
4. tit-for-tat: Morales and Marquez played this game with Manny pretty well, while they could keep up, but most of Pacquiao's opponents haven't been able to make Manny pay immediately after he has thrown a punch or combination, Mosley has a great chin, and like the great mexicans Manny has fought, he has an incredible ability to take a shot and throw one at you as if he hasn't been hit at all. We saw Margarito do this a few times against Pacquiao, but he was just too slow most of the time to really get anything off, and his footspeed was so slow he couldn't get away from Pacquiao's combinations which meant Manny was just teeing off on him, we haven't seen somebody have the footspeed to deter that since Marquez, and like I said Mosley is a lot faster than JMM.
All-in-all I never felt Mosley had the style to compete with Floyd, but I've always felt his style would make an exciting fight against Manny, I know his last two fights were tough, but I think people should really be excited if he gets the fight with Manny. I don't think Berto has the chin, and I think, though Marquez-Pacquiao would be exciting, we've already seen that fight.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
It could depend on the weight.
JMM may not be as great above 135. However Pac may not be as great below 140. As for Shane I think he does beat JMM at 147 but that could be because of how poor JMM is above 135.
JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
It could depend on the weight.
JMM may not be as great above 135. However Pac may not be as great below 140. As for Shane I think he does beat JMM at 147 but that could be because of how poor JMM is above 135.
JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?
Also both are 37-38 years old but JMM has looked better in his last fight. But again it could depend on the weight/division.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Julius Rain
It could depend on the weight.
JMM may not be as great above 135. However Pac may not be as great below 140. As for Shane I think he does beat JMM at 147 but that could be because of how poor JMM is above 135.
JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?
Do we know how good JMM is above 135? He could very well be nearly as successful as Pacquiao if he moved up to 140 and 147, I don't think he could ever match Manny's power and speed, but he is almost as effective offensively IMO.
I don't think it's fair to base JMM competence on the fight against Floyd, because it's Floyd Mayweather. Marquez and Pacquiao are combination punchers when they are at their best, and nobody lands combinations on Floyd. Stylistically Marquez wouldn't have had the speed to deal with Mayweather even if they were the same size. Honestly, besides a couple of inches in height Floyd wasn't that much bigger than Marquez, and he was just as much faster when he was a lightweight as Marquez is at 135. I think people see Marquez being dramatically slower at 147 because we can compare it directly to his last fight which took place at 135, but go back and look at Floyd at 135 and he was way faster in terms of footspeed. Everyone gets slower as they get bigger, and Floyd wasn't that much bigger than JMM maybe 4 pounds and two inches taller.
Back to the point, I think Mosley matches up much better physically against Manny than JMM does, and I think JMM does well stylistically against Pacquiao, maybe even better than Mosley, but it's impossible to tell because we've seen Pacquiao fight somebody with a style roughly like JMM's about 7 times, and we haven't seen fight somebody like Mosley ever. That's why it intrigues me far more. Even Berto's blistering speed and ability on the outside makes me feel like he is a better and more unique challenge than JMM is for Manny, but I think he gets knocked out because he doesn't seem to have the mental sharpness to fight against Pacquiao for 12 rounds. He just hasn't shown it.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
It's not often I agree with Taeth but here I do. People are saying Mosley has been ruined as a credible opponent because of his defeat to Floyd, but Floyd beat Marquez even easier than he beat Shane.
Mosley almost put Floyd down, against Mayweather the only people at risk being put to sleep by Marquez were the fans.
Mosley vs Pacquaio is a great matchup imo. I'd love to see it.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.
Exactly, Mosely relied on speed and whatever he got found guilty of using. Now he has slowed down hes not as effective. Notice in the Mayorga fight, Ricardo was outboxing him and Mosely has the energy to land a decent few shots in the final seconds but also doesnt need to be tested;)
Marquez is a much better boxer than Mosely and has already proven he has Mannys number. Ok Morales beat him but in the rematches he couldnt repeat that but Marquez will always handle Manny.
This is a daft question. "JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?"
Marquez would do better against Manny and not Floyd because Floyd is better than Manny! Simples!!
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
When you compare both Mosleys and Marquez' performances against Mayweather back to back. Both got completely schooled in every aspect but the difference is in 1 round Mosley had Floyd hurt whereas Marquez was dropped by Floyd in 1 round.
After two attempts Marquez has failed to convince the judges he is better than Pac so its probably time to let someone else have a go. Mosley is bigger than Marquez, obviously hits harder and has a better chin. Lets see how his style does against Pac instead of Marquez again. Ideally it should be Sergio vs Pac but if it were between these two faded greats Id go with Shane.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
I think Pac would beat either of them especially if it's at manny pacquiao weight.
Marquez deserves this fight more though. He's beat pac twice and been screwed twice. So he deserves it more.
Mosley got trounced by floyd and got a draw agaist mora. He ain't earnt it.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
Because it's been a year since Manny kayoed an opponent. I think fighting Marquez rejuvinates that kayo fountain. Fighting Mosely makes more money and sense IMO.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
Mosley has had one good performance in the last 6-7 years.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
With exception of 2nd round...maybe I'm nuts but I think Marquez gave Mayweather a stiffer go of it then Mosley did. Still dont think he gets credit for rights vs Mayweather. No he didnt rock him but was somewhat accurate with it.
To question...24 rounds. History. JMM just has more in the tank and punch selection is just a beautiful thing. On other hand....I honestly cant say Manny can take Mosleys best punch,would love to see what happened when nailed on chin...and he would be.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ross
Quote:
Originally Posted by
killersheep
Because he doesn't do jab,jab overhand right over and over and over.
Exactly, Mosely relied on speed and whatever he got found guilty of using. Now he has slowed down hes not as effective. Notice in the Mayorga fight, Ricardo was outboxing him and Mosely has the energy to land a decent few shots in the final seconds but also doesnt need to be tested;)
Marquez is a much better boxer than Mosely and has already proven he has Mannys number. Ok Morales beat him but in the rematches he couldnt repeat that but Marquez will always handle Manny.
This is a daft question.
"JMM did say it didn't matter which division he fights pac at, but did it matter against floyd?"
Marquez would do better against Manny and not Floyd because Floyd is better than Manny! Simples!!
Sorry where was Ricardo outboxing Mosley in that fight, it was awkward, but Mosley was landing way better shots than Mayorga was. At no point was Mayorga really winning rounds, he was just making in an awkward fight. HE was landing like 10% of his punches against Shane.
Shane's performance against Margarito was considered arguably his best ever, he looked good against Collazo and Cotto who are really good and great fighters respectively.
Honestly Mora would be hard for anyone to look good against, he has a slick style that was almost B-hopish with a jab that night. There is no way that Mosley was going to look good against that style, and I wondered why he ever took that fight because unless he stopped MOra it was ugly, but he should have won that fight and landed way more punches than Mora. I'm not even sure Floyd or Manny would have looked good against Mora. It's just a pain in the ass style to deal with.
Mosley still has tremendous speed, and more than enough of it to land on Manny, he has that cracking power when he really lands, he hits so hard to the body, and he's probably as durable as anyone has been in boxing's history. I mean he has taken some helacious punches in his career. I think you put a guy like Manny who likes to fight and use speed, and we have Mosley at his absolute best in an absolute war.
Re: Why would Marquez be a more viable opponent than Mosley for Manny?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hornfinger
Mosley has had one good performance in the last 6-7 years.
Do you watch boxing? Cotto, Collazo, Vargas II, Margarito. He would have had more, but there were long stretches where he was trying to get big fights.
