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Should be a good topic for discussion. Been done before, but still fun nonetheless.
I'll start with
Kostya Tszyu
Best win? Judah?
Duffed up by Vince Philips! (who was coming off a loss and 2 losses in 4)
Duffed up by Hatton!
Very very good fighter and the best of his time, but in all time terms I don't think he belongs with Aaron Pryor, Barney Ross, Wilfredo Benitez, PBF, Pac and maybe Cervantes and Canzoneri.
sergio martinez
very good fighter but not the 3rd best in the world
pongsaklek wonjongkam- he's almost top 5 in ring magazine- what has he done to deserve it?
Any fighter in history there is little footage of. Fact. Unless you're a hardcore creationist how can you possibly judge fighters you haven't actually seen? And if you haven't seen them then how can you possibly rate their opposition, who are even more obscure by association?
(this post was in no way shape or form intended to rile Marblehead. fact.) ;D
I agree with all so far (just to what degree still tbc).
What about Jack Dempsey? Huge draw, shit boxer.
Nonito Donaire.
3rd best p4p in the world ?? I don't think so.
He's clearly a gifted fighter and he has good wins over Montiel and Darchinyan but what else, no one else appears to be worth mentioning.
Maybe i should learn more about the lower divisions before i make this post though.
On any given day a great chance HBO will be calling him "the next" whoeva.
Oh and Mike Tyson. Gamboa. Berto...nevermind. Mayweather, I'm convinced he'll go down as never maximizing greatness, it'll always be who he didn't fight and such. Sort of like Roy Jones Jr. on a way.
You should learn more about the lower divisions, Donaire has beaten a lot of good fighters, and you can see just based on what he does in the ring that he is an amazing fighter.
Sergio Martinez is starting earn my respect. I'm not sure how high I would rank him because I never thought much of Paul Williams, but I definitely think his last fight and his fight against Pavlik put him way up the p4p list.
Also Kostya Tszyu beat a lot of good fighters, Roger Mayweather, JCC, prime Sharmba MItchell. He, also, is a great fighter, and you can see it when he fights. Great technique, power, and boxing savy.
It's guys like Juan Manuel Lopez, Margarito, Pavlik, Soto, Mares, Mijares who have been so overhyped IMO.
Not that he isn't great but even Evander Holyfield I think is vastly overrated. I think he was a ATG for sure, but not a top 50 type guy like they rank him. I can't think of a modern era where he would have ruled the heavyweight division. I think Ali, Foreman, Larry Holmes, prime Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Klitschko brothers beat him far more often than not.... except maybe Tyson.
I don't base my fighters solely on their ability in the ring. I mainly base my fighters on their resume and because i don't know much about lower weight classes, his resume don't look that great to me, not to be rated 3 p4p anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
Can you give me some of the good fighters Nonito beat so i can look them up.
Carlos Zarate
Interesting one that. I guess most people would have him as the greatest Bantam of all time?? Maybe Olivires?Quote:
Originally Posted by ICB
Bernard Hopkins ....... made loads of defences against the weakest middleweight era I have ever seen, comprehensively outboxed by the flawed Roy Jones, matured into a spoiling, scuffling type fighter who actually is never in good fights !!! Recent 'great achievements' have been against true second raters. Light Heavy world champion at an impressive age allright, but he wasnt exactly beating Archie Moore or Bob Foster etc
Great pointing out Dempsey. Also Patterson.
And Jack Johnson, or Joe Louis are ovarated in terms of comparing them to Hwy's such as Lewis, Holmes, Ali. They wouldn't stand a chance against modern Heavyweights- even the Klitschkos
[laughing]. By this ridiculous standard, a military historian can make no assessment of Julius Cesar or Alexander the great or Napoleon as a general. After all, there is no footage! Nobody cvan make a judgement on Shakespeare's plays either as we have no footage of them being performed the way he wanted them performed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
It is a world class DUMB point of view. How the hell do you think history gets studied exactly?
On the other hand
The only post 1900 fighter of significance I have found NO footage of is Greb. That's it. Gans? Got him, Jeffries? Got him. Dixon, McGovern, Fitzsimmons, O'Brien, Ketchell? Got'em all.
Oh, and Greb's "more obsucre opposition?" Men like Loughran and Tunney and Walker? Plenty of footage on them.
;D
LOL, and what in God's name do you base THAT on?Quote:
Originally Posted by gest12645