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Not that I did before, but after watching the Barker fight yesterday, either Barker is in the top 10 of the mythical P4P lists (which he's not) or Martinez is not as good as he's been labelled.
Barker did really well yes, but Martinez is a long way away from being near the top 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
im starting to think Martinez is top 10 lb4lb coz he is definately the dominate champion of his division
you hit the nail on the head tho when you said he is nowhere near the top 2
it was as if people were having manny, floyd and martinez as their top 3 and then everyone else
when in reality by a long distance it is manny and floyd and then everyone else
I personally find it hard to see how people can put martinez above hopkins and the klits, then you could argue about his credentials against the rest of the field
In my opinion wlad klitschko should b in the top 3 purely because he constantly cleans the division out and is forced to fight prospects, he also holds most of the belts.
He knocked out an unbeaten, unexposed naturally bigger man than himself. And a fighter that he clearly took lightly.
Martinez did a perfect job in solidifying his no.3 ranking.
I saw nothing wrong with Martinez performance. He was clearly toying with Barker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
Since winning the Middleweight trinket from Pavlik a year and a half ago, Martinez has defended it 3 times, and won all 3 times by KO/TKO and was voted fighter of the year in 2010. Please tell me who besides Pacquiao, and maybe Donaire, deserves the #2 P4P ranking more than Sergio?
As for Barker, he's shit offensively, but he's tall, with long arms and had a defense that made it very hard for Martinez to look good against or penetrate. Because Barker covered up, smothered Sergio's punches and was the "aggressor" much of the fight he did much better than expected, but lets not forget that he clearly lost the fight, and was knocked out.
All things considered, this was a good win for Martinez, toped off by a KO, read 'um and weep, dissn' Martinez just sounds like sour grapes.
wasn't a trinket that he won from Pavlik, seeing how Kelly Pavlik was still the lineal Middlweight ChampionQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
Since winning the Middleweight trinket from Pavlik a year and a half ago, Martinez has defended it 3 times, and won all 3 times by KO/TKO and was vote fighter of the year in 2010. Please tell me who besides Pacquiao, and maybe Donaire, deserves the #2 P4P ranking more than Sergio?
As for Barker, he's shit offensively, but he's tall, with long arms and had a defense that made it very hard for Martinez to look good against or penetrate. Because Barker covered up, smothered Sergio's punches and was the "aggressor" much of the fight he did much better than expected, but lets not forget that he clearly lost the fight, and was knocked out.
All things considered, this was a good win for Martinez, toped off by a KO, read 'um and weep, dissn' Martinez just sounds like sour grapes.
I thought it was a good win. Barker fought a good gameplan and kept it tight, not allowing Martinez to get off with his punches. The first six rounds or so were nip and tuck but Martinez adapted and was dominating the fight by the end.
It's silly to suggest it wasn't an impressive win because he wasn't dominating from the opening bell. That's like writing Man Utd off as league champions because they go in at half time 0-0 with West Brom.
He got the job done.
I don't think he's as complete a fighter as either Manny or Floyd. And if Hopkins beats Chad Dawson I think I will put him above him also.
If you count the Klitschko's in the p4p then I think there is a case for both of them being higher rated considering the levels of dominance they display over all of their opposition, but most people don't put heavyweights in there.
Guys like Ward, Bradley and Khan are rising, but they aren't undisputed champs like Martinez. At the end of the day, if you don't think Martinez is one of the top 3 fighters in the world, then you have to say who is. It's really hard to make a serious case for anyone else.
He's definitely one of the best in the current p4p, although I think he would have been a bit lower down the list had the likes of Hopkins, Jones, Cotto, Calzaghe, Mosley, Hatton and De La Hoya still been in their primes/top a few years ago.
Three years ago he'd be creeping into the top 10 with his current resume. But as boxing is right now, all of those guys are gone so his place is starting to look legit.
He's also a very exciting fighter.
Right, I stand corrected, he won 2 trinkets from Pavlik, the WBO & WBC Middleweight titles, i'm not sure when Martinez won the Ring magazine middleweight title, possibly from Pavlik as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleswasn't a trinket that he won from Pavlik, seeing how Kelly Pavlik was still the lineal Middlweight ChampionQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
Since winning the Middleweight trinket from Pavlik a year and a half ago, Martinez has defended it 3 times, and won all 3 times by KO/TKO and was vote fighter of the year in 2010. Please tell me who besides Pacquiao, and maybe Donaire, deserves the #2 P4P ranking more than Sergio?
As for Barker, he's shit offensively, but he's tall, with long arms and had a defense that made it very hard for Martinez to look good against or penetrate. Because Barker covered up, smothered Sergio's punches and was the "aggressor" much of the fight he did much better than expected, but lets not forget that he clearly lost the fight, and was knocked out.
All things considered, this was a good win for Martinez, toped off by a KO, read 'um and weep, dissn' Martinez just sounds like sour grapes.
The ring title is not the same as the lineal title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axRight, I stand corrected, he won 2 trinkets from Pavlik, the WBO & WBC Middleweight titles, i'm not sure when Martinez won the Ring magazine middleweight title, possibly from Pavlik as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleswasn't a trinket that he won from Pavlik, seeing how Kelly Pavlik was still the lineal Middlweight ChampionQuote:
Originally Posted by Mars_axQuote:
Originally Posted by 0james0
Since winning the Middleweight trinket from Pavlik a year and a half ago, Martinez has defended it 3 times, and won all 3 times by KO/TKO and was vote fighter of the year in 2010. Please tell me who besides Pacquiao, and maybe Donaire, deserves the #2 P4P ranking more than Sergio?
As for Barker, he's shit offensively, but he's tall, with long arms and had a defense that made it very hard for Martinez to look good against or penetrate. Because Barker covered up, smothered Sergio's punches and was the "aggressor" much of the fight he did much better than expected, but lets not forget that he clearly lost the fight, and was knocked out.
All things considered, this was a good win for Martinez, toped off by a KO, read 'um and weep, dissn' Martinez just sounds like sour grapes.
The lineal title is a tracing of the true championship belt lineage from the present right back to the 'good old days' of boxing. IT traces the man who beat the man who beat the man who beat them man.
To be the ineal champ is to be recognised as the true world champion in a weight class. The Ring will usually automatically make the lineal champ the champ.
But Martinez is no trinket holder, he is the legitimate, undisputed world champion.
Maybe I just expected too much from Martinez. I expected a one sided beat down, but although we saw it to some degree, there were far too many rounds won by Barker, won by a fighter not really in the same league.
I do think that this maybe down to the fact Martinez expected an easy night, hence the hands by his waist taunting from the very first round. But for rounds 4,5,6, he looked lost. He didn't look like he could work out how to land a shot and seemed to be tired and shocked by the fact his nose was gushing blood.
Fair play to him for turning it around, but maybe it's just that Floyd and Manny are just that much better we/ I expect too much from the 3rd place fighter. I expect it to be completely one sided, maybe a couple moments of doubt, but not a third of the fight wondering if he is going to win.
I'm not saying that Martinez is shit or that he didn't do well and deserve that win. But I just don't feel like he is the third best fighter on the planet.
But then like Bilbo says, who else could you put there?
Maybe I'm just over critical
Just another example how difficult it's for british fans to accept the defeat of their own boxer. When they can't do anything else it's time to underrate the winner.
OK. First of all i don't think at all Martinez underrate Barker before the fight. Barker just did things well enough to stay alive until round 10. From that round the punishment by Martinez started to take toll. Barker defended well but he ain't got weapons to destroy Martinez at all. His plan was just to survive and punch relatively soft punches.
On the other hand we indeed saw that Martinez is lacking one very special punch - sharp, fast uppercut. He had several good chances to end the fight much sooner than round eleven. I would say he needs something e.g Lucian Bute has - devastating uppercut. And that might be one good reason number 3 P4P. And finally - who really has beaten Martinez in the ring during the last 5 years. Paul Williams (in first fight)? Hardly not. Martinez was better. He was better in that Cintron fight too. Martinez has really lost only one fight - long time ago (Margarito).
So Martinez had pretty qualityless night. Barker did what he can - but that ability will never give him real worldchampionship in this division. He is very medium boxer and he can't take hard punches. That's why his style is what we saw in Atlantic City. Is it too hard to say his boxing style is also very boring?
My opinion is there ain't complete fighter and will never been. Even Manny and Floyd have features not even near 100% complete. "Complete fighter" is nothing but one example of hype.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Well it was a ok win i think but to me the mw divsion looking weaker then the cw division there not much talent in it really. I mean if anyone else in the top ten beat a Barker no one would give a shit. Looking at Martinaz career as a whole resume is pretty weak form what i can say at least for his rank. People bring up first Willaims fight i think he lost it close still a lose on his record and he avenged anyhow dont know why people try to erase the lose. If Hopkins wins he is above Martinez and if count heavyweights I think the brothers might have a good account but like Bilbo said before heavys aren't ranked much. I think if Martinez wants to really build a legacy going to have to go to 168 and fight the top guys in the divsion but i really doubt that while happen for him.
Martinez top 20 if ur lucky!boxed a shit fight against barker!to mention him in the same breath as manny or floyd or even vlad,Hopkins,froch is almost comical!