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Sure Pac lost to Bradley officially and yes he got put to sleep by ONE FUCKING PERFECT PUNCH by a great counter puncher whom had 4 fights to land that punch.
Pac and Floyd should still happen and everybody knows it aside from anti pac and floyd followers.
That's true. Sustained beatings damage fighters but one punch knockouts dont have the same effect.
Pac is ok physically... if anything, he has wear and tear from all the wars he's been in combined with his age, but the marquez ko didnt affect him...
It might actually be a good thing. He will probably fight with more intelligence now..
Honestly he looked a bit gun shy, vs a gimp Bradley and said he was content to carry a guy in Rios who looked like he was just going through the motions late. Physically I say he is aight, mentally..focus wise...eh :poke:
Oh, and Marquez found that shot earlier that fight too ;D
Tell that to Michael Watson
You've never favored pac in anything so its expected for you to argue otherwise. Gun shy? Pacquiao? :lolhaha: I think its better if he carrys dominated fighter instead of risking getting caught with a lucky punch again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
It was two different punch if you actually look at the two knockdowns by jmm :cool: I think the first one was a great adjusted loop by jmm that he had lots of success with in the past against Pac but clearly jmm carried more power that night. The k.o. punch was a short counter and pac was coming in instead of backing straight up like in the first knockdown. Get the big difference dumbfuck? :D
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not Pac is physically/mentally the same guy he was 3 years ago. Absolutely nothing.
It used to amaze me that a lot of boxing fans don't understand the concept that rankings and momentum should determine fights.
But then I remembered that boxing fans have been fed fights that don't make sense for decades by greedy promoters (which is a large reason why boxing has taken a nose dive into the irrelevancy).
When you lose two fights in a row, including one where you get KTFO and faceplant like a corpse, it takes more than a tune-up fight against an undersized, hand-picked patsy to build yourself back up.
As the #1 p4p, Floyd should be made to fight only the highest ranking guys with the most momentum. At Floyd's weight, that includes guys like Timothy Bradley, Maidana, and Danny Garcia if he choses to move up. These are fights that MAKE SENSE.
A Pac fight doesn't make sense until Pac racks up another 1 or 2 big wins against elite competition. Same with Khan, he's been knocked out and has looked lackluster in his last few fights. Fights with Pac and Khan do not make sense.
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether or not Pac is physically/mentally the same guy he was 3 years ago. Absolutely nothing.
It used to amaze me that a lot of boxing fans don't understand the concept that rankings and momentum should determine fights.
But then I remembered that boxing fans have been fed fights that don't make sense for decades by greedy promoters (which is a large reason why boxing has taken a nose dive into the irrelevancy).
When you lose two fights in a row, including one where you get KTFO and faceplant like a corpse, it takes more than a tune-up fight against an undersized, hand-picked patsy to build yourself back up.
As the #1 p4p, Floyd should be made to fight only the highest ranking guys with the most momentum. At Floyd's weight, that includes guys like Timothy Bradley, Maidana, and Danny Garcia if he choses to move up. These are fights that MAKE SENSE.
A Pac fight doesn't make sense until Pac racks up another 1 or 2 big wins against elite competition. Same with Khan, he's been knocked out and has looked lackluster in his last few fights. Fights with Pac and Khan do not make sense.
in your opinion the fight might not make sense in terms of rankings and who deserves what and whats fair and all of that but in terms of money it may well make a lot more sense than fighting someone like bradleyQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
i dont know that for sure by the way in terms of who he would make most money fighting :)
Julius Marquez is Pac's bogie fighter, Ali had Norton theses fighters have a style to make lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by Julius Rain
difficult for the best !, did Pac losing by that sweet right hand damage him, mentally yes
I would say. But he is still a great fighter, and that was a perfect punch that Ko him, it
did change shit mentally scared, I don't think Floyd want's to fight Pac, as there easy
pickings elsewhere to be found,! I hope they fight.;)
Oh I agree in terms of making money. Even the Khan fight would probably make more money that any of the 3 I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I just think it's sad that boxing has been reduced to that. It's like the old snake oil elixir salesmen that would show up in their wagon, put on a show, talk a great game, grab every nickel they could and then GTFO of there.
Boxing fans have been fed shit for so long that they've acquired a taste for it.
That kind of stuff would never fly in the UFC. Dana White shoehorned Chael Sonnen into a few big fights because he talked a good game and was a big draw, and the UFC got slammed for it, because MMA fans demand fights that make sense.
Boxing fans don't seem to care about fights that make sense. All that matters is Pac can throw hard, fast punches and might beat Mayweather so why not give him a shot.
as well though dont fighters get a mandatory and then a voluntary?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerOh I agree in terms of making money. Even the Khan fight would probably make more money that any of the 3 I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I just think it's sad that boxing has been reduced to that. It's like the old snake oil elixir salesmen that would show up in their wagon, put on a show, talk a great game, grab every nickel they could and then GTFO of there.
Boxing fans have been fed shit for so long that they've acquired a taste for it.
That kind of stuff would never fly in the UFC. Dana White shoehorned Chael Sonnen into a few big fights because he talked a good game and was a big draw, and the UFC got slammed for it, because MMA fans demand fights that make sense.
Boxing fans don't seem to care about fights that make sense. All that matters is Pac can throw hard, fast punches and might beat Mayweather so why not give him a shot.
I know alverez wasnt mandatory for anything of floyds but a very difficult fight as it looked before hand
isnt he now entitled to more of a voluntary?
in fact if you look at floyds last 5+ fights its kind of gone that way, tough looking fight then not so tough, tough, not so tough, etc :)
I don't think you're making sense. You're saying Pac has to "prove" he's worthy of fighting Floyd, right? Yet you're providing Bradley as a more worthy contender because of "rankings"Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerOh I agree in terms of making money. Even the Khan fight would probably make more money that any of the 3 I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I just think it's sad that boxing has been reduced to that. It's like the old snake oil elixir salesmen that would show up in their wagon, put on a show, talk a great game, grab every nickel they could and then GTFO of there.
Boxing fans have been fed shit for so long that they've acquired a taste for it.
That kind of stuff would never fly in the UFC. Dana White shoehorned Chael Sonnen into a few big fights because he talked a good game and was a big draw, and the UFC got slammed for it, because MMA fans demand fights that make sense.
Boxing fans don't seem to care about fights that make sense. All that matters is Pac can throw hard, fast punches and might beat Mayweather so why not give him a shot.
This is what the majority of the world saw when Pac fought Bradley -
Chris Manix, Sports Illustrated: 115-113 Pacquiao
Lem Satterfield, Ring Magazine: 115-113 Pacquiao
Gordon Marino, The Wall Street Journal: 115-113 Pacquiao
Armando Alvarez, Telemundo: 115-113 Pacquiao
Jake Donovan, BoxingScene.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
Terry Dooley, BoxingScene.com: 115-113 Pacquiao
Jordan Capobianco, BoxingNews24.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Franklin McNeil, Newark Star-Ledger: 116-112 Pacquiao
Brett Okamoto, ESPN: 116-112 Pacquiao
Steve Bunce, BoxNation.com/BBC: 116-112 Pacquiao
Juan Manuel Marquez: 116-112 Pacquiao
Max Kellerman, HBO: 116-112 Pacquiao
Andreas Hale, FightNews.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Brian Arman Graham, Sports Illustrated: 116-112 Pacquiao
George Willis, The New York Post: 116-112 Pacquiao
Rick Reeno, BoxingScene.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Robert Morales, Los Angeles Daily News: 116-112 Pacquiao
Ben Thompson, FightHype.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Tim Smith, New York Daily News: 116-112 Pacquiao
Suge Green, On the Grind Boxing Radio: 116-112 Pacquiao
Steve Zemach, The Queensbury Rules.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Michael Nelson, TheCruelestSport.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Tom Gray, SecondsOut.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Joel Sebastionelli, LIITR Box Radio: 116-112 Pacquiao
CheckHook.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
BoxingSocialist.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Ricky Hatton: 116-112 Pacquiao
Amir Khan, Primetime: 116-112 Pacquiao
Wayne McCullough: 116-112 Pacquiao
Ken Hissner, DogHouseBoxing.com: 116-112 Pacquiao
Alexander Belenky, Sport-Express.ru: 116-112 Pacquiao
Rob Day, RingNews24.com: 117-112 Pacquiao
Ryan Burton, BoxingScene.com: 117-112 Pacquiao
Matt Youmans, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
Graham Houston, FightWriter.com/FightNews.com/ESPN: 117-111 Pacquiao
Stephen Edwards, BoxingTalk.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Kieran Mulvaney, ESPN: 117-111 Pacquiao
Tim Dahlberg, Associated Press: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ron Borges, Boston Herald: 117-111 Pacquiao
Cliff Rold, BoxingScene.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Chris Robinson, BoxingScene.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Steve Carp, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ronnie Shields, boxing trainer: 117-111 Pacquiao
David Mayo, The Grand Rapids Press: 117-111 Pacquiao
Robert Little, BlackSportsOnline.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Jorge Hernandez, The Low Blow.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
David Greisman, BoxingScene.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Benny Henderson, DogHouseBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ryan Phillips, BleacherReport.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Graham Parker, The Guardian (UK): 117-111 Pacquiao
Ed Graney, Las Vegas Review-Journal: 117-111 Pacquiao
Luis Sandoval, BoxingScene.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Jonathan Sakti, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
Richie Tomasini, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
Tim Starks, The Queensbury Rules: 117-111 Pacquiao
Champ Ross, *************.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Lance Pugmire, Los Angeles Times: 117-111 Pacquiao
Darren Velasco, 8CountNews.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ryan Maquinana, Comcast Sports Net Bay Area: 117-111 Pacquiao
George Diaz, The Orlando Sentinel: 117-111 Pacquiao
Steve Kim, MaxBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Doug Fischer, Ring Magazine: 117-111 Pacquiao
FightersRated.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Luke Thomas, MMAFighting.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Scott Christ, BadLeftHook.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports: 117-111 Pacquiao
Tommy Gunn, BoxingAsylum.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Charles Farrell, No Holds Barred Radio Show: 117-111 Pacquiao
Gareth Davies, London Telegraph: 117-111 Pacquiao
John Perretti, No Holds Barred Radio Show: 117-111 Pacquiao
John Raspanti, DogHouseBoxing.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Ron Lewis, Primetime/BBC: 117-111 Pacquiao
Brent Brookhouse, SBNation.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Jake Emen, ProBoxing-Fans.com: 117-111 Pacquiao
Alexey Sukachev, Sports.ru: 117-111 Pacquiao
Kevin Mitchell, The Guardian (UK): 118-112 Pacquiao
Steve Lillis, BoxNation: 118-111 Pacquiao
Nick Xouris, FightHype.com: 118-111 Pacquiao
Brett Newton, Pound4Pound.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Joseph Herron, FightSaga.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Mark Lyons, 8CountNews.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Danny "Swift" Garcia: 118-110 Pacquiao
Mike Koppinger, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
Gabriel Montoya, MaxBoxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ryan Songalia, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
Robert Ecksel, Boxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Pete O'Brien, USA Today: 118-110 Pacquiao
John McCormick, BoxingTalk.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Victor Contreras, The Sacramento Bee: 118-110 Pacquiao
Eric Raskin, HBO/TheSweetScience.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Chuck Giampa, Showtime: 118-110 Pacquiao
John Russell, boxing trainer (Buster Douglas trainer): 118-110 Pacquiao
Rich Marotta, KFI Los Angeles: 118-110 Pacquiao
Jeff Mayweather: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ace Freeman, FightFan.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Kelsey McCarson, TheSweetScience.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Mario Cabrera, The Boxing Republic: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ramon Aranda, 3MoreRounds.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Colin Seymour, Examiner.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Nigel Collins, Espn.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Paddy Cronan, On the Grind Boxing Radio: 118-110 Pacquiao
Denzil Stone, OnTheBreak.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Phil Jay, WorldBoxingNews.net: 118-110 Pacquiao
Geoffrey Ciani, EastSideBoxing.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Michael Rosenthal, Ring Magazine: 118-110 Pacquiao
Eugeny Pilipenko, Vringe.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Vadim Zhuk, Championat.com: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ken Pollitt, *****************: 118-110 Pacquiao
Ted Sares, Boxing.com: 119-111 Pacquiao
Allen Barra, The Atlantic: 119-110 Pacquiao
Barry Tompkins, Showtime: 119-110 Pacquiao
Vittorio Tafur, The San Francisco Chronicle: 119-109 Pacquiao
Ray Markarian, TheSweetScience.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
Harold Lederman, HBO: 119-109 Pacquiao
Dan Rafael, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
Max Parker, BoxingWatchers.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
Scott Sawitz, Fox Sports/Inside Fights: 119-109 Pacquiao
Leroy Cleveland, FightSaga.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
Michael Woods, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
Michael Marley, BoxingConfidential.com/Examiner.com: 119-109 Pacquiao
Skip Bayless, ESPN: 119-109 Pacquiao
Danny Flexen, Boxing News: 115-113 Bradley
Cameron Sharpe, Boxing Fancast: 115-115 Draw
Among the experts above, 121 scored the bout for Pacquiao, 1 scored the bout a draw, and 1 scored the bout for Bradley.
Maidana has a loss against Khan, a man being rubbished as a Floyd opponent. Garcia has never fought at 147, and although currently a top-class elite fighter, is not P4P rated (you brought up that it's Floyd's obligation as P4P no.1 to face certain guys). Pac is still P4P rated.
None of these guys have Pacquiao's pedigree and none have current form that is far superior to his. Rios KO'd Alvarado, a man that started favourite against Provodnikov, a man that gave Bradley the beating of his life, a man that the majority of the world saw comprehensively beaten by Pac.
Pacquiao is clearly still the most significant opponent below 160 for Floyd.
Floyd and Pac can happen after they have milked all other alternatives and have no where else to go. I hope they never fight as we do not deserve their left overs. :)
Thank you for proving my point that boxing fans have no understanding of momentum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Did Pacquiao get jobbed against Bradley? He sure did.
That's completely irrelevant. Boxing is a "what have you done lately" sport. Fighters come, fighters go. Fighters are on top of the world one day, they lose, and the next day they're halfway down the ladder the next day. It's a tough sport. Pedigree doesn't mean shit. What you were two or three years ago doesn't mean shit. All that matters is your CURRENT standing in the sport.
It doesn't matter that Maidana lost to Khan 3 years ago. It doesn't even matter so much that he lost to Devon Alexander a year or two ago. That's old news. Since then, he's moved up to WW and ran off 4 straight wins, and by beating Broner (regardless of what people think of Broner as a WW), he gain big momentum, heat, whatever you want to call it. It was a career performance.
When you get absolutely buried like Pac did against JMM, to the point where your biggest fans and your country are calling for you to retire, that's a SERIOUS blow to your career. You have to get the ball rolling again. You have to do more than beat a hand picked, undersized patsy coming off of a loss (please don't even try to defend Rios as an opponent).
Danny Garcia not p4p rated? Ring magainze should be ashamed of themselves.
For me Pac doesnt give a fuck if he lost to Floyd because he's been beaten before so its win win for him.
Floyd has his 0 to lose and could potentially if they ever get it on.
That for me is what puts the breaks on this ever happening plus Floyds fight purses are already sorted with the Showtime deal so a monster one off payout doesnt come into play anymore ;)
The way Pac was floored heavily has devalued him bigtime and Floyd doesnt need him anymore.