JourneyMen: The GateKeepers

Bert Cooper is a fav of mines.
Carl Williams, Tommy Morrison, Orlin Norris, Riddick Bowe,
Ray Mercer & he fought a G-damn hellatious scrap.
Evander got rocked BAD by him, Michael Moorer & he whooped each other for 5 rounds.

Undefeated Larry Donald, Chris Byrd, Fres Oquendo, Baby Joe Mesi... In order to get to the HW title, you had to go through the the GateKeeper: Smokin' Bert Cooper


Emanual Augustus- Undefeated Ivon Robinson & Leonard Dorin had to go through the drunken master .
Antonio Diaz fought him.
A young Money Mayweather said he was his toughest foe- 'till he fought Cotto. about a decade later. Future champ Jesus Chavez had to go through him.
Mickey Ward, Leavander Johnson, Alex Truillo & soon to be champ David Diaz. & Spolier for 37-1 ranked Carlos Wilfredo Vilches who lost to the drunken master.

Most recently Provodnokov and then undefeated 23-0 Vernon Paris also chose the Drunken Master to hone their skills.

Some fighters who have bad records aren't all tomato cans
Some have bad records because they are good enough to make it to the top, but not beat the top there.

Got to give credit to the fighters who gatekeep!

My top two: Smokin Cooper & the Drunken Master Augustus.
Honorable mentions to Reggie Strickland who fought everyone & their daddy, cousin & unlce!

Freddie Pendleton. WAY better than his record would suggest. Gave prime Pernell Whitaker a run for his money.

Darnell Boone for sure too. Andre Ward (dropped Andre and gave him a very tough fight), Jean Pascal, Curtis Stevens, Lara, Adonis Stevenson 2x (knocked out Stevenson and gave him his only loss), Kovalev 2x (arguably beat Kovalev in the first fight). He was competitive with all of them.

Those are two guys you couldn't judge by their records (as Adonis Stevenson found out).

Glenn Johnson was a favourite gatekeeper and even had a peak where he beat Target and Jones before going back to gatekeeper status.

Okkte Urkal was a tough testing ground for many whom we love, always gave it his best.

A journey used to be a person whos second job was boxing.
Some also think of one as a fighter who has stood the test of time and is always there as a testing ground for the top tier fighters.
Can think of any journeymen who fought their way into top tier? Winky.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Bert Cooper is a fav of mines.
Carl Williams, Tommy Morrison, Orlin Norris, Riddick Bowe,
Ray Mercer & he fought a G-damn hellatious scrap.
Evander got rocked BAD by him, Michael Moorer & he whooped each other for 5 rounds.

Undefeated Larry Donald, Chris Byrd, Fres Oquendo, Baby Joe Mesi... In order to get to the HW title, you had to go through the the GateKeeper: Smokin' Bert Cooper


Emanual Augustus- Undefeated Ivon Robinson & Leonard Dorin had to go through the drunken master .
Antonio Diaz fought him.
A young Money Mayweather said he was his toughest foe- 'till he fought Cotto. about a decade later. Future champ Jesus Chavez had to go through him.
Mickey Ward, Leavander Johnson, Alex Truillo & soon to be champ David Diaz. & Spolier for 37-1 ranked Carlos Wilfredo Vilches who lost to the drunken master.

Most recently Provodnokov and then undefeated 23-0 Vernon Paris also chose the Drunken Master to hone their skills.

Some fighters who have bad records aren't all tomato cans
Some have bad records because they are good enough to make it to the top, but not beat the top there.

Got to give credit to the fighters who gatekeep!

My top two: Smokin Cooper & the Drunken Master Augustus.
Honorable mentions to Reggie Strickland who fought everyone & their daddy, cousin & unlce!

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Funny I was just talking to @Master about Simon Brown who was an overachieving gate keeper and how he ruined my day one evening in 1986 when he stopped O'Sullivan who did break his hand in the first round.

Then you have to go and bring up Bert Cooper who just 7 months later in Feb of 87 would destroy my world once again in his bruising of Willie Dewitt.;D

Augustus could have been so much more if not for his free spirit and crazy ways.


Good thread.

@ BF, Freddie Pendleton, forgot about him.

For some reason Pendleton made me think of Angel Manfreddy. Not sure where he ranks: Journeyman, Underachiever or Overachiever.

He did beat Gatti, Jorge Paez, Ivan Robinson.

He could win the WBU belt, but not the big 3 ,WBC, IBF,WBA & the (WBO) was still trying to break through back then...I think?

Once he got to the WBC-green belt, he couldn't snatch it. Mayweather, then Stevie Johnston, Corrales all beat him

Then he turns around & beats undefeated Julio Diaz to get another title shot and Paul Spadafora defeats him. :confused:

I remember gettin' a few cold ones for an ESPN boxing night, My boy Angel Manfreddy about to take on someone named Courtney Burton...:D

Damn, Burton knocked him the F... out. Not sure where to put Angel at. Always great to watch him, but I could never figure out, why he never got one of the big belts.

@ Inuit- Interesting: O'Sullivan? Never seen that one, but I have watched quite a few of Simon Brown fights. I've always considered him a champ, considering he got the belt and defended it a few times against worthy names. Maurice Blocker IMO being his signature win. But I could see calling him an overachiever.

I don't think Angel Manfredy was even close to being a journeyman. He was a champ and top ranked fighter for awhile.

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Originally Posted by Andre

A journey used to be a person whos second job was boxing.
Some also think of one as a fighter who has stood the test of time and is always there as a testing ground for the top tier fighters.
Can think of any journeymen who fought their way into top tier? Winky.

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Steve Lightning Little, RIP. Clawed and clawed with spotty but deep record until he out hustled a smirking Michael Nunn for a strap.

Journeymen to me arrive at different points. Guys who like you said are in half way from the start. Guys paying rent and a car note but "serviceable" enough to pad records for a few rounds but brought in strictly as TBA. Then you have pluggers who came with potential and literally learned on the job but the point is they learned a bit, take some guys rounds, have a moment vs a touted prospect and then are seriously overlooked based on record and rep and then score big "upset". Or prospects themselves who just go bust after being walked into a trinket win but didn't belong there in the first place but stick around. On and on

Its a good question really. After all its the journeymen who make the sport. When I think journeymen its guys like a John the beast Brown..plugger knocked off a few early undefeated prospects and damn hard enough to go rounds and be tv friendly. Darryl Pinckney who pulled a golden rabbit outta his arse ko'ing Junior jones? Marion Wilson or Bigfoot Martin at heavyweights, Cosme Rivera...Mr short notice TBA himself. Livingston Bramble, champion to hard nut journeyman thanks to a rock hard head and guile.

Recent: Tony Thompson ;) Soto Karass :)

Harold Brazier?
Sammy Fuentes ?

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andre

A journey used to be a person whos second job was boxing.
Some also think of one as a fighter who has stood the test of time and is always there as a testing ground for the top tier fighters.
Can think of any journeymen who fought their way into top tier? Winky.

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Steve Lightning Little, RIP. Clawed and clawed with spotty but deep record until he out hustled a smirking Michael Nunn for a strap.

Journeymen to me arrive at different points. Guys who like you said are in half way from the start. Guys paying rent and a car note but "serviceable" enough to pad records for a few rounds but brought in strictly as TBA. Then you have pluggers who came with potential and literally learned on the job but the point is they learned a bit, take some guys rounds, have a moment vs a touted prospect and then are seriously overlooked based on record and rep and then score big "upset". Or prospects themselves who just go bust after being walked into a trinket win but didn't belong there in the first place but stick around. On and on

Its a good question really. After all its the journeymen who make the sport. When I think journeymen its guys like a John the beast Brown..plugger knocked off a few early undefeated prospects and damn hard enough to go rounds and be tv friendly. Darryl Pinckney who pulled a golden rabbit outta his arse ko'ing Junior jones? Marion Wilson or Bigfoot Martin at heavyweights, Cosme Rivera...Mr short notice TBA himself. Livingston Bramble, champion to hard nut journeyman thanks to a rock hard head and guile.

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Excellent post.

Steve Forbes,

Im still reeling from his win over francesco Bojado.
Bojado was in good shape to get in contentions, but Forbes brought his 'A' game.

I also wanted to say Keith Mullings, but i think he was a tomato can that stopped Terry Norris.

Lots of gate keepers have won a strap just to be clear.

I consider Zab Judah a gate keeper just as much as I consider David Tua to be one.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Steve Forbes,

Im still reeling from his win over francesco Bojado.
Bojado was in good shape to get in contentions, but Forbes brought his 'A' game.

I also wanted to say Keith Mullings, but i think he was a tomato can that stopped Terry Norris.

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Good call on Forbes. Mullings was in the right place at the right time but earned that shot after a very shady "loss" vs Marquez and all on two weeks notice. He put himself in line for the De La Hoya sweepstakes but fortunately for him ;D came in flat against Castillejo(?).