Why does USA amateurs suck at amateurs ? But then shine as a pro ?

With the Rio Olympics coming up. I guess it's a good time to talk amateur boxing. As that's where a fair few of the future pro stars will come from. But this specifically about how poorly USA amateur boxing has been at recent Olympics

At amateur level the USA's rep does not match their performance. But then when you look at how many of them get on as a pro, it all changes and many go onto to have very successful careers.

When you look at the USA boxers from London 2012

Dominic Breazeale – Represented USA at super heavy at London 2012 (beaten in Rnd 1) now 17-0 as a pro.

Micheal Hunter – Represented USA at heavy at London 2012 (beaten in Rnd 1) now 10-0 as a pro.

Marcus Browne– Represented USA at light heavy at London 2012 (beaten in Rnd 1) now 18-0 as a pro.

Errol Spence – Represented USA at Welter at London 2012 (Quarter Final) now 20-0 as a pro

Jamel Herring – Represented USA at light welter at London 2012 (beaten in Rnd 1) now 14-0 as a pro.

Jose Ramírez – Represented USA at light weight at London 2012 (beaten in Rnd 1) now 17-0 as a pro.

Joseph Diaz – Represented USA at Bantam at London 2012 (beaten in Rnd 1) now 19-0 as a pro.

Rau'shee Warren - Represented USA at fly at London 2012 (beaten in his Rnd 1) now 13-1-1 as a pro.

It's still early on but you would imagine a fair few of them being a world champ and maybe one or two being potential stars

Even when you go back Olympic 2008.

Deontay Wilder (Needs no introduction) he won bronze in Beijing 2008 as a heavy and of course everyone knows what he’s gone on to do.

Demetrius Andrade who again needs little introduction, was beaten in the quarters as a welter in the Beijing 2008 Olympics but is now a quality unbeaten world light middle champion.

Javier Molina who represented USA at L.Welter at Beijing 2008 (beaten in Rnd 1) now 14-0 as a pro.

Sadam Ali - Represented USA at Lightweaight at Beijing 2018 (beaten in Rnd 1) challenged an lost to Jessie Vargas in a world title shot.

So why do USA seem to fail so miserably at the amateurs but yet still produce quality fighters at the pro level ?

Shine as a pro? US fighters have been on the decline for a good while now. I personnaly think most turn pro too early and would have better pro careers if stayed amateur a bit longer.

Shakur Stevenson has a great chance to medal next year but outside that I dont see any US hopefuls

There has been a decline, whereas the UK fighters have improved.

The standard has declined because there are easier routes to make a living and the hunger is not there.

You don’t get spoon fed no hopers in the amateurs. When you see the guy for the first time its in the ring. With few exceptions on that list those people get guided to their "0" records. They are creations.

For the most part over the last decade Americans are matched soft. Wilder is a great example boasting a big 0 record having not done a thing really. Same with Thurman. Gets cold feet for a Shawn Porter fight. Lots of mouth on these guys though.

But the elephant in the room is that they are effectively 2 different sports.

Count your blessings though. Look at Rigo. An incredible record and fighter but he's still fighting in the cheap seats. Meanwhile you have frauds calling themselves champions raking in tens of millions of dollars.

The UK had the London Olympics; there has been lots and lots of investment put into all Olympic sports and boxing has taken advantage.

The connection is, the US post the collapse of the Warsaw pact has seemingly lost interest in the Olympics and this has cost the amateur sport. And when the US is not successful at a sport it seems to die off for them, boxing is slowly going that way.

So the key in investment and exposure of the sport results in better talent attracted to the game.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

You don’t get spoon fed no hopers in the amateurs. When you see the guy for the first time its in the ring. With few exceptions on that list those people get guided to their "0" records. They are creations.

For the most part over the last decade Americans are matched soft. Wilder is a great example boasting a big 0 record having not done a thing really. Same with Thurman. Gets cold feet for a Shawn Porter fight. Lots of mouth on these guys though.

But the elephant in the room is that they are effectively 2 different sports.

Count your blessings though. Look at Rigo. An incredible record and fighter but he's still fighting in the cheap seats. Meanwhile you have frauds calling themselves champions raking in tens of millions of dollars.

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Great post. Good points.

And Rigo ? I mean. Look. You're not gonna see him begging for change in the streets but it's almost a disgrace the way the boxing world has treated him. He must be foaming at the mouth at the big fights and big paydays he's missing out on.

He'd be highly favoured to beat Frampton and Santa Cruz, but they're gonna make mint fighting each other in the summer, meanwhile he was gonna fight Jazza Dickens on a Terry Flanagan undercard.

It beggars belief. And I agree with all your points about the amateur system

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Originally Posted by denilson200

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

You don’t get spoon fed no hopers in the amateurs. When you see the guy for the first time its in the ring. With few exceptions on that list those people get guided to their "0" records. They are creations.

For the most part over the last decade Americans are matched soft. Wilder is a great example boasting a big 0 record having not done a thing really. Same with Thurman. Gets cold feet for a Shawn Porter fight. Lots of mouth on these guys though.

But the elephant in the room is that they are effectively 2 different sports.

Count your blessings though. Look at Rigo. An incredible record and fighter but he's still fighting in the cheap seats. Meanwhile you have frauds calling themselves champions raking in tens of millions of dollars.

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Great post. Good points.

And Rigo ? I mean. Look. You're not gonna see him begging for change in the streets but it's almost a disgrace the way the boxing world has treated him. He must be foaming at the mouth at the big fights and big paydays he's missing out on.

He'd be highly favoured to beat Frampton and Santa Cruz, but they're gonna make mint fighting each other in the summer, meanwhile he was gonna fight Jazza Dickens on a Terry Flanagan undercard.

It beggars belief. And I agree with all your points about the amateur system

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Agreed. He was supposed to be fast tracked from the moment he got off the boat but he had the unfortunate timing and bad luck to be locked in with Arum and being a master boxer. In a world of 30 sec time slots and many fans not giving a shit about pugilism. I mean, his own promoter called him boring and HBO did not want him on the air because he didn't produce ko's and made everyone look pedestrian. Punished for something (a style) that Floyd made a billion on. The same kinds of things were being said about Ward. Today there is no room in boxing for pugilists lol. Its devolved and considerably. This may have started at the in with a bang success of the MMA etc I dont know. Perhaps this generations short attention span. In order to produce the desired effect you implement a system of mismatches.

Computer scoring in the amateurs over the past couple decades has had an impact as well. It can be detrimental to boxers who fight with aggression.

In addition, in the Olympics/amateur ranks, a soft right jab that lands cleanly is worth every bit as much as a pulverizing left hook. Amateur fighters aren't given any additional credit for hard-punching, effective aggression or for staggering or wobbling an opponent.

Easier to shine when you can hand pick your opponents rather than have a luck of the draw kind of match making.

Americans just don't have the balls for the professional game

in the ams you are well protected, youre not gonna get a pasting

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Originally Posted by erics44

Americans just don't have the balls for the professional game

in the ams you are well protected, youre not gonna get a pasting

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Completely the opposite to what the O.P. said....but that's ok we all know you're slow because of your inferior Ginger genes

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by erics44

Americans just don't have the balls for the professional game

in the ams you are well protected, youre not gonna get a pasting

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Completely the opposite to what the O.P. said....but that's ok we all know you're slow because of your inferior Ginger genes

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shit, you're right for once, the break must have done you good

Dominic Breazeale is no good as a pro either, we'll see that on June 25 when he gets KOed.

A lot of top U.S. amateurs turn pro instead of fighting amateur into their mid 20s. Hector Tanajara Jr for example, was a six time national champ. He turned pro at 18, trains with Robert Garcia, flights for GBP, and is 6-0.
The same gym that produced Hector has two juniors ranked #1 in the world.