What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
On one hand he must be respected for staying atop the HW division for so long. Even though it was a garbage division, it still was an impressive run.
But on the other hand he fought in a very dishonorable way with his excessive clinching and leaning his body on people. He had a very boring style and he pretty much single-handedly made the entire world not care about the HW division.
And then when he was finally dethroned, it was done by a mediocre fat body gypsy who, turns out is completely insane. And it was done so in a horrible fight where Clinch-ko could barely by bothered to throw a punch.
I know a lot of boxing fans rate him in the top 10 of all time. To me he was just an inflated man with a glass chin who stayed in Europe and benefited from the best of "German engineering". I don't believe he belongs in the same breath as great champs like Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Lewis, etc.
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
I'm inclined to agree with where your post finished
there was so much holding in all of his fights, in more than a few of his fights he held a lot more than he punched, and it makes it clear that his reign was built on the money he generated and the amount of people he made rich every time he fought rather than boxing and sportsmanship
in any neutral situation he would have been DQ'd time and time again
for these reasons I don't think he can be in the top 10
In fact if you take a guy who is ranked 99th who bases his style on boxing and throwing punches how can you argue that the big klit is higher than 99th when he bases his style on holding
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vidgil
On one hand he must be respected for staying atop the HW division for so long. Even though it was a garbage division, it still was an impressive run.
But on the other hand he fought in a very dishonorable way with his excessive clinching and leaning his body on people. He had a very boring style and he pretty much single-handedly made the entire world not care about the HW division.
And then when he was finally dethroned, it was done by a mediocre fat body gypsy who, turns out is completely insane. And it was done so in a horrible fight where Clinch-ko could barely by bothered to throw a punch.
I know a lot of boxing fans rate him in the top 10 of all time. To me he was just an inflated man with a glass chin who stayed in Europe and benefited from the best of "German engineering". I don't believe he belongs in the same breath as great champs like Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Louis, Tyson, Lewis, etc.
Amen, brother. Seems we agree on many boxing opinions. The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch. In retrospect, those KTFO losses early in his career were probably the worst thing that could happen to the HW division, as it shaped the boring reign that came soon after.
I voted "Good HW", because there wasn't an option for Top 20 All-Time. Top 10, IMO, he is NOT.
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
powerpuncher
He turned into a good fighter but definitely not top 10 Worthy. I would say top 20.
Yeah I mean about 10 years in a row as THE champ, 23 successful title defenses 2nd only to Joe Louis, he's fought in more title fights than ANY other heavyweight in the history of the sport 28, he's defeated the most undefeated boxers in the history of the sport with 12....sure he's "definitely not top 10 worthy" :rolleyes:
What else did he have to do in his career? How's about you guys set the bar a little higher???
"Well it's the holding"....so 100% of the referees in boxing are shit?
"Well it's his opponents".....so Louis, Ali, Marciano, Dempsey, etc ONLY fought all time greats?
"Well it's his style"......64 wins 53 KO's
If you have high blood pressure, watch out for this thread, lot of salt in here.....salty salty salty.
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Amen, brother. Seems we agree on many boxing opinions. The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch. In retrospect, those KTFO losses early in his career were probably the worst thing that could happen to the HW division, as it shaped the boring reign that came soon after.
I voted "Good HW", because there wasn't an option for Top 20 All-Time. Top 10, IMO, he is NOT.
SALTY
"The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch."
Yeah as opposed to those heavyweights who just allow themselves to be hit flush over and over and over again.....yeah THOSE guys stick around in the sport, THEY make a name for themselves
http://www.thefightcity.com/wp-conte...-back-home.jpg
Dude was going to be "the next big thing"....and what did I tell you? HE GETS HIT TOO FUCKING MUCH
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Damn, so sad to see Abdusalamov like that :eek:
But I saw that fight and Abdusalamov was, with all due respect to him, a punching bag for Perez with no defense. He would plod forward and get punched in the head with no real attempt to avoid it.
I think there's a great middle ground between "punching bag" and "running scared" that many a great fight has stayed. Of course a fighter needs to be cognizant of punches coming his way, but it must not deter him from throwing punches himself.
Guys like Clinch-ko and Chicken Floyd would stink out arenas because they were happy to go the distance. Wlad would grab and hug and Eric is right, he would have been disqualified many times if he wasn't in his own territory.
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Amen, brother. Seems we agree on many boxing opinions. The only thing I'd add is that to me, the main reason behind the excessive clinching and leaning his body on people was his huge fear of getting his fragile chin brushed by the wind of an opponent's punch. In retrospect, those KTFO losses early in his career were probably the worst thing that could happen to the HW division, as it shaped the boring reign that came soon after.
I voted "Good HW", because there wasn't an option for Top 20 All-Time. Top 10, IMO, he is NOT.
Yes exactly, and people picked up on his fearfulness. That's why the HW division became irrelevant IMO
The HW champion is supposed to be society's ideal alpha man. Joe Louis, Marciano, Ali, Tyson, etc. These were men who instilled fear in people, they were looked at as apex predators.
The public saw Wlad for the scared man he was and his fearful way of fighting, and they laughed and moved on. ;D
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Outside top 5 maybe inside top 10 but voted him just outside.
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vidgil
Damn, so sad to see Abdusalamov like that :eek:
But I saw that fight and Abdusalamov was, with all due respect to him, a punching bag for Perez with no defense. He would plod forward and get punched in the head with no real attempt to avoid it.
I think there's a great middle ground between "punching bag" and "running scared" that many a great fight has stayed. Of course a fighter needs to be cognizant of punches coming his way, but it must not deter him from throwing punches himself.
Guys like Clinch-ko and Chicken Floyd would stink out arenas because they were happy to go the distance. Wlad would grab and hug and Eric is right, he would have been disqualified many times if he wasn't in his own territory.
"If he wasn't in his own territory"
Madison Square Garden, Boardwalk Hall, Stade de Suisse, Mandalay Bay, Caesers Palace, Etess Arena Atlantic City, London Arena, The Orleans in Nevada, Grand Casino Avoyelles, Sport Palace, Budapest, Hungary, Olympic Stadium, Moscow, Russia vs Povetkin.....care to take a stab at how many DQ's happened to Wlad in those arenas?
And not only that Wlad has fought 1 time, 1 time in Ukraine....that's his home country. He's a big draw in germany, he's fought a lot in Germany but Germany ain't his home.
Wlad has had 68 professional fights, he's won the overwhelming majority of them, and he's won them by KO.....but I suppose you can still complain about it :vd: if you fucking try hard enough.
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vidgil
Yes exactly, and people picked up on his fearfulness. That's why the HW division became irrelevant IMO
The HW champion is supposed to be society's ideal alpha man. Joe Louis, Marciano, Ali, Tyson, etc. These were men who instilled fear in people, they were looked at as apex predators.
The public saw Wlad for the scared man he was and his fearful way of fighting, and they laughed and moved on. ;D
Yeah, a cowardly lion that wins 83% of his fights by KO
Fucking ridiculous.
Ah yes, wasn't Ali the guy leaning back on the ropes covered up all the time? Such courage, such grace, to just sit back and let guys wing punches at you.....OOOOOH AAAAAHHHHH AMAZING!!!
Laughed? They filled the stadiums for him....laughed. horseshit
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Here's a guy who didn't mind getting smacked upside the head with a few punches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yiYEx0v_4E
He's 49 and you can just barely understand him. But hey, what a champ....how long was his prime? MAYBE 2-3 years......well he chose real wisely didn't he?
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
"If he wasn't in his own territory"
Madison Square Garden, Boardwalk Hall, Stade de Suisse, Mandalay Bay, Caesers Palace, Etess Arena Atlantic City, London Arena, The Orleans in Nevada, Grand Casino Avoyelles, Sport Palace, Budapest, Hungary, Olympic Stadium, Moscow, Russia vs Povetkin.....care to take a stab at how many DQ's happened to Wlad in those arenas?
And not only that Wlad has fought 1 time, 1 time in Ukraine....that's his home country. He's a big draw in germany, he's fought a lot in Germany but Germany ain't his home.
Wlad has had 68 professional fights, he's won the overwhelming majority of them, and he's won them by KO.....but I suppose you can still complain about it :vd: if you fucking try hard enough.
Germany was his adopted home and most definitely his "territory".
Klitschko has a lot of power and money behind him. He was always the promoter or co-promoter of his fights with K2 promotions. With that kind of power and stature comes a lot of influence.
If he was an under card no-name who wasn't promoting the event, I think he would have been DQ'd several times!
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Yeah, a cowardly lion that wins 83% of his fights by KO
Fucking ridiculous.
Ah yes, wasn't Ali the guy leaning back on the ropes covered up all the time? Such courage, such grace, to just sit back and let guys wing punches at you.....OOOOOH AAAAAHHHHH AMAZING!!!
Laughed? They filled the stadiums for him....laughed. horseshit
Well there is no doubt Wlad can punch hard and KO people (thanks in great part to "German engineering" ;D ).
But he was allowed to hold and grab and lean on guys and that sucks your power away. Then he would finish them in later rounds.
The great MMA fighter Randy Couture made a career out of grabbing guys, making them carry his weight and wearing them out. But he was allowed to do that - it was MMA and wrestling is allowed! ;D
Boxing is supposed to be "hand to hand" combat. To Wlad, it was "hand to hug" combat ;D
Re: What will Clinch-ko's legacy be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vidgil
Well there is no doubt Wlad can punch hard and KO people (thanks in great part to "German engineering" ;D ).
But he was allowed to hold and grab and lean on guys and that sucks your power away. Then he would finish them in later rounds.
The great MMA fighter Randy Couture made a career out of grabbing guys, making them carry his weight and wearing them out. But he was allowed to do that - it was MMA and wrestling is allowed! ;D
Boxing is supposed to be "hand to hand" combat. To Wlad, it was "hand to hug" combat ;D
"German engineering".....so is that a jab at Klitschko using steroids for which he has NEVER tested positive for? That what that is?
OH and just how fucking often must I say this...."IF THE REF DOESN'T CALL IT A FOUL, IT'S NOT A FOUL" doesn't matter what sport it is, doesn't matter what happened, doesn't fucking matter.....Allow me to show you EXHIBIT FUCKING A for this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RzLqn9Uqto
Roberto Duran wins by KO with a punch to the nuts
The last part you're just salty about a guy winning his way....."but but but but"....shut up and win the fucking fight and if you can't then just shut up. I didn't like John Ruiz, but the dude won and you can't take it away from him. I don't like Floyd Mayweather Jr. but he won fights and you can't take it away from him.
Get this through your skull, fighters bend the rules ALL THE TIME: Holyfield headbutts, Hopkins headbutts, Tyson elbows, Rocky would hit you anywhere at any time...on the canvas he'd crack you there too, have a problem with holding??? Muhammad Ali held all the fucking time.....oh but see that was different he gloated and hot dogged when he held, that's different :vd:
