The tradition of closed scoring
The more I think about it, the more I think that open scoring after every round should be how it should be. Closed scoring only surprises fans at the end of the fight.
In any other sport, you know what the score is and you adjust accordingly. It would only make sense that boxing would be the same. I also think that it would really fix bad judging if you saw their score after every round. It would be much harder to continue to judge bad round after bad round.
Closed scoring is just a tradition. It’s one of the many things we just live with without really thinking about. I know that people want to avoid a fighter who has a lead to just start running, but that happens in every sport. That’s just the way it is. It forces the one losing to go for the knockout though which is better.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
I prefer closed scoring because otherwise it would encourage tactical fighting which could see fighters running after they win 7 rounds or forcing an injury on themselves so they get a decision.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I prefer closed scoring because otherwise it would encourage tactical fighting which could see fighters running after they win 7 rounds or forcing an injury on themselves so they get a decision.
I think they would adapt though. Fighters wouldn’t throw away too many rounds at the beginning if they knew for sure they were going to lose.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
I thought they did try it out recently but went back to closed scoring because of the tactical shenanigans from the fighter and trainer's.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
I thought they did try it out recently but went back to closed scoring because of the tactical shenanigans from the fighter and trainer's.
I think they showed after every 4 rounds not every round.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
A judge who is way way off would be getting major real-time blowback during the fight, it would make for interesting dynamics; would bottles and tomatoes start raining down on him or her in the middle of the fight?
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
We as fans do a lot of complaining about the real problem of bad judging but in a way I think we're hooked on the surprise. I've said it before but to deter shady judges I'd like to take away some of their mystery. At the very least require them to stand ring center just as the ref pre opening bell and introduce them. May sound weird but put a face to the name, in the moment. Think they've tried open scoring at numerous times before but the iffy scores remained. If the idea is to deter a judge from bad scores it would seem that better well trained judges would do well rather than to put scores on a big screen overhead. You might really grow a second distraction during live action in that fans and opposing camps would become focal points and influencers of judges on their own. They've done the every 4 rounds score card reveals but again guys could ride out a lead or guys so deep in the hole could look for another way out rather than fight out of their skins trying to force a miracle ko. If you need a miracle score in a baseball game for example you have the numbers to strategize by different skillsets combined. Lead off hitters then base stealers then a DH or clean up hitter trying to get them all in quick. Boxers adjust from the opening bell but if the big pop isn't there it's not something they'll adopt in the championship rounds of a fight they're losing.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
I don't like open scoring, because of the "running issue". It's bad enough it happens when a fighter's corner stupidly tells them they've got it in the bag thus encouraging the track and field portion of the fight.
Instead, I'd fix judging by increasing the number of judges.
Instead of 3, have 5. Then toss out any outliers, such as any card handed it by CJ Ross. :D
Also.... why wait until the end of the fight to add up the cards??
Scoring should be closed to fighters and to the fans.... but totals should be done separately after each round.
Have each judge hand in a score round after every round. Then have someone working on it.
It's not rocket science.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
what about a fans card as an extra card of five? fans vote in for a average card. toss out the two furthest cards of the five
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
what about a fans card as an extra card of five? fans vote in for a average card. toss out the two furthest cards of the five
Then it becomes a popularity contest, the boxer with the most fans wins the fan card.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
As much as i hate to say it .. It'd probably stick with closed scoring. I don't want to encourage running and I want to spur on the losing guy to get that highlight reel ko from behind. (Like a kevin Kelley vs Gainer ko) I guess my logic is that whiles, it would be great if the last few rounds of every bout, turned into a dog fight.... by the stage of the fight where this matters, its not really much of a secret anymore. Nor should it be.
Fighters know the game, the promoters, the networks, the commissions, the judges and the outright fuckery that exists in between them. If you can knock a guy out but need a scoreboard to tell you to do it late in the fight "or else", you probably deserve to lose. Runners and dancers rarely even needed to be clued in as to when they should get on their bike. Late in the fight its a lot easier for the guy who runs holds, spits out his mouth piece, pulls someone down with them , fakes an injury to get away with what they do than it is for someone who couldn't knock them out for 12 rounds, to suddenly turn around and find the magic bullet.
Now on the other hand if it resulted in more fighters saying "i have plenty of points to spare so let full nelson this guy and ram his head into the corner pad..." well, that could be interesting ..
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
The issue is that boxing never changes its rules. It is very traditional. Basically every other sport has changed major things to combat certain issues. I always compare boxing to wrestling. International wrestling has created harsher “stalling” rules. If the one wrestler is running, they get hit with a warning, then a point deduction, another one, then DQ’d.
Boxing could do the same thing potentially. Create point deductions if a fighter is just running (I get it’s subjective). I just have seen all of these sports changed rules to fix problems whereas boxing just hasn’t. Most of their changes have been negative it seems.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
I'm all for rule changes. Heaven knows plenty of other sports have changed their rules over time. But it should be done to address specific issues... and the changes should be well thought-out and intelligent. They should also avoid creating new problems while solving old ones. We all agree scoring in boxing leaves a lot to be desired. Concentrate on that. I feel strongly about increasing the number of judges to five... then removing the outliers or "points out of the curve." A professional judge gets his/her score removed enough times... it becomes an embarrassment. Allowing a fighter to run after building up an insurmountable lead, especially if borne out by open scoring, would result in unwatchable rounds in the latter part of fights. Also... what's with the waiting and waiting while scores get added up? That is so 19th century. Like I said... gather the scores after each round, so when the fight ends the final score is a mere formality announced within a minute of the fight ending. When they take too long, it just begins to smell like rotten fish.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TIC
what about a fans card as an extra card of five? fans vote in for a average card. toss out the two furthest cards of the five
Then it becomes a popularity contest, the boxer with the most fans wins the fan card.
not always. most who would take the time to fill in score cards are usually serious followers of the sport. sure you will get the haters or fan boys voting hard one way or the other but you take the average for each round & like i said you throw out the two widest cards of the five
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J_Undisputed
As much as i hate to say it .. It'd probably stick with closed scoring. I don't want to encourage running and I want to spur on the losing guy to get that highlight reel ko from behind. (Like a kevin Kelley vs Gainer ko) I guess my logic is that whiles, it would be great if the last few rounds of every bout, turned into a dog fight.... by the stage of the fight where this matters, its not really much of a secret anymore. Nor should it be.
Fighters know the game, the promoters, the networks, the commissions, the judges and the outright fuckery that exists in between them. If you can knock a guy out but need a scoreboard to tell you to do it late in the fight "or else", you probably deserve to lose. Runners and dancers rarely even needed to be clued in as to when they should get on their bike. Late in the fight its a lot easier for the guy who runs holds, spits out his mouth piece, pulls someone down with them , fakes an injury to get away with what they do than it is for someone who couldn't knock them out for 12 rounds, to suddenly turn around and find the magic bullet.
Now on the other hand if it resulted in more fighters saying "i have plenty of points to spare so let full nelson this guy and ram his head into the corner pad..." well, that could be interesting ..
The cynic in me thinks you'd see a reasonable increase in guys trailing by near shut out turning up 'shoulder or hand injuries' by way of corner consensus or fighter themselves at different levels of the game. Save it for another day just not your night etc. Might also see refs doing the same and knowing a guys history of throwing snowballs and that they would have little chance for ko.
Re: The tradition of closed scoring
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
I'm all for rule changes. Heaven knows plenty of other sports have changed their rules over time. But it should be done to address specific issues... and the changes should be well thought-out and intelligent. They should also avoid creating new problems while solving old ones. We all agree scoring in boxing leaves a lot to be desired. Concentrate on that. I feel strongly about increasing the number of judges to five... then removing the outliers or "points out of the curve." A professional judge gets his/her score removed enough times... it becomes an embarrassment. Allowing a fighter to run after building up an insurmountable lead, especially if borne out by open scoring, would result in unwatchable rounds in the latter part of fights. Also... what's with the waiting and waiting while scores get added up? That is so 19th century. Like I said... gather the scores after each round, so when the fight ends the final score is a mere formality announced within a minute of the fight ending. When they take too long, it just begins to smell like rotten fish.
I think those are good ideas, but again, can you imagine something like basketball where you weren’t sure what the score was? You could make the argument that it slows the game down at the end. Same with football (American and soccer). That’s a part of sports. You know you have a lead and you waste time off the clock. It’s not always fun, but fortunately, boxing still has the KO option unlike these other sports. That’s why I mentioned wrestling as an example. They have rules where you can get DQ’d if you start to run at the end instead of engaging.
