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Ive never undertood this, while leenox is a great fighter that fight does not define him tyson was done agianst holyfield over 4 years prior, I certainly did not think he would win he looked dreadlyful against frans botha and many could have beat him. People talk as if this is lennoxes defining fight but giv eme a break tyson was dreadful.
Boxing needs them, they are significant. From Corbett/Sullivan, to Jackson/Jeffries, Tunney/Dempsey, Marciano/Louis, Holmes/Ali, Holmes/Tyson to finally Lewis/Tyson, they help show that the King is dead and a new King is crowned.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacdog
They are a necessary evil, because as Lewis/Vitali showed, when the Coronation fails, chaos occurs, and boxing suffers... Lets hope Wlad can finally prove he is for real, and clean up this holy mess left mostly by his big brother.
Tyson avoided Lewis for as long as possible .Same could be said for Evander and Bowe . Lewis beat em all with ease so you have to give the man credit .
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Originally Posted by GAME
no way he should get credit for beating tyson anymore than williams and mcbride can say they did
Williams and Mcbride beat Tyson years later plus some people were saying Mike could beat lennoxQuote:
Originally Posted by LawHoops
Prime Mike knocks Lennox the fuck out.
Well yes, Lewis was an amateur at the time, it would be a little bit embarrassing if he could not!!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
I've always found it odd that some people disregard Lewis's victorys over guys like Holyfield and Tyson because they were old and past it, really, Lennox was no spring chicken either, he was as good as he ever was at nearly 40, it's not his fault these guys burned out quickly. Lewis wasn't high profile enough to fight Tyson before he went to prison in 92, and by then Tysons peak had passed so no matter when he fought him people would end up saying he fought a washed up Tyson, because Tyson got washed up real quick.
I think the point with Lewis v Tyson. is that their primes were at very different stages in their caerrers.
Lewis is actully older than Tyson though peaks way later, when Tyson is barely 20 hes bobbing weaving and being an absolute monster, while lewis is off playing amauter games and hunting olympic medels. It is only far later that Lewis obtains these killer jabs and thunderbolt uppercuts that made him virtually unbeatable from the mid 90's onwards.
There was probably a point where their talents crossed over and you would have had an even match up but it was never to happen. Your right Lewis fought a faded tyson, but he was still considered a threat and was capable of taking out any number of contenders, in many ways i think lewis probably accerlated tyson's decline by that brutal pummerling he gave the man.
Prime for Prime is a real tough one, for although they shared the same time, it is the older man who has the later prime. personally i think ive got to with tyson, for lewis's ringcraft he showed he was suspectable to be ko'd by one good shot, and tyson's movement in the late 80's was something else, so i would side with tyson but Lewis's huge frame and reach would have given him a chance to nulify tyson. Its a fight that we were never going to be able to see and what we got, though an even match was much needed for linege and also to end the debate over who was the best at that time.
Tyson at his best, beats Lewis at his best then if your playing that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Britkid
I don't really think Lennox's victory over Tyson really mattered. I hated Lewis at the time, but he well established his legacy before collecting a bunch of Tyson dollars. I was great before fighting Tyson.
I do however think Tyson would have knocked his block off had they've fought in Tyson's prime.
No, a 220lbs Tyson, would just not be able to stand up to prime 250lbs Lewis. Tyson, even at his dominant best, had awkward fights with big men... Ribalta, Smith and Tucker come to mind. Even Tillis and Green found ways to neutralize much of Tyson's offence.Quote:
Originally Posted by cockey cockney
Lewis is better athlete than all of them, After a couple of rounds chasing Lewis, Tyson would just eat the jab up, for the rest of the night, and whenever Tyson tried to get inside, he would walk into the Telephone pole that was Lewis' straight right or get all tied up.
Lewis by easy decision 8/4 ;)
Tyson mid rounds KO.
I hate to have to keep saying this but McBride didn't actually beat Tyson... Tyson quit inbetween rounds because he now lacked the skill to KO McBride. A short old guy with diminished skills struggling to beat a journey because of his side? He lost interest... ::** No heavyweight contender beats McBride on points... they knock the bum out.
Even jouneymen like Michale Murray knock Mcbride out .
As for Lewis - Tyson . Lewis did and would beat Tyson easy
Lewis needed a big big name on his CV so he beat an old washed up Tyson,got the big name plus if he did not fight Tyson,everyone would have questioned the size of his testicles.
Prime Tyson would get inside his jab and wack him,plain and simple,Tyson KO,no problem.
Lewis domianted Tyson when teh sparred as kids . Tyson always would have trouble with the big guys like Lewis . I cant see a way he could win .
Lewis by K.o
Tyson had problems with which big guys Bonecrusher?? Prime Tyson,a guy who caused him problems was someone who was not kOED within 2 rounds,that's how his high standards were.
High standards ?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Game
What was Tysons greatest win ? Spinks ? Tucker ?
Rudduck took Tyson 12 hard rounds but was destroyed in 2 by Lewis .
Common opponents suggest Lewis was better and when they met in the ring Lewis proved he was better
Common opponents mean nothing....MAB beat EM,EM beat Pac,Pac beat both etc etc. Tyson primetime beat whoever was put in front of him and did it easily. Lewis proved he was better.....against an over the hill 39 year old Tyson desperate for a big payday. Tyson does not have a big stand oout win simply because he crushed all those that were supposed to be threats,so everyone belittled his opponents. Also,he was unified champ at how old? Prime Tyson would have had tooo much power for Lewis tooo,great d,just the perfect machine to destry.
i've said it before, lennex was good at fighting guys that were past there prime. big frank bruno who was never a great was making a mug of him even lennex's manager he couldn't beleave it but then frank started show boating and got hit with lucky punch lennex'x eyes were shut when he threw it
of course tyson was on the downside but lewis was paid like 4 million years earlier to not take a fight with tyson. Lewis did his job and it's not the ali and larry holmes fight in which the fighters were ages apart. All I have to say is that people do hate on lewis. I give him a lot of credit simply because right after he got knocked out by Rockman, Lewis came back in the next fight and scored a knock out. Not too many boxers come back from knockout to score a knockout in the rematch.
Tyson wasnt 39 when he fought Lewis lol ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by The Game
Lennox' physical advantages would be far too much for Mike . Even Bruno wobbled a prime Mike Tyson . Lennox was more mature and had a better boxing brain
ok ... for me, Lewis doesnt get any credit in the rematch against rachman for doing something he should have done the first time. After watching Tua, Maskaev, Sanders do what they did to rachmans chin... a boxer with lewis's power and skill should have been able to KO him the first time they fought.
For people that say tyson had trouble with guys like mitch green as a reason tyson would have trouble with lewis. Lets remember that Mitch green has his mouthpiece knocked out like 67 times so its not at though tyson never connected. A guy like Larry Holmes started working the jab on tyson...(yes holmes was old and didnt hit as hard as lewis... but he had a superb jab) but after a few jabs tyson was back inside and beat larry around the ring.
I'm not saying Lennox wasnt a good Champ, he knew how to work the jab and set up his shots, use the ring and pack a heavy punch. Lewis's prime is fresher in the minds of some people while tysons prime was like a vivid flash that kind of burns its way into most peoples memories, but most people only remember the post prison tyson, who moved his arms and not his head, who loaded up on punches, turns at the waist to get power on his punches instead of bending at the knees.. and most people remember the tyson that would quit over an untied shoelace rather that the tyson that just extending the beating on guys for 12 rounds if he couldn't knock them out.
Lewis looked great against the guys in his division in his prime as Tyson did with his. Lewis was a great fighter and good boxer. But Mike for his time in his prime was phenomenom. He avoided punches, slipped the jab without even a partial parry, took hard shots from big punchers landed hard 4 or 5 shot combinations and dropped guys with body shots. He had exceptional hand speed for a heavyweight became the youngest heavyweight champion in history.
While its true that mike probably never faced a guy of lewis dimensions before so mike would feel his punch more. That's a double edged sword. That extra weight and lennox's dimensions would probably make him slower than a lot of the guys that tyson faced that did land on mike. Everything in proportion, i dont think Lewis would be able to take the pressure from Mike over a whole fight... and would eventually get caught. Lennox didnt take those big Ko shots well.
As the years went by it became easier and easier to fight Mike Tyson. This has been proved by the fact that in 2004 and 2005 he lost to fighters of the likes of Williams and McBride. I truly believe that if Tyson had fought Lewis or Holyfield in late 80s and early 90s prior to prison he would have beaten them both. Even post Buster Douglas and pre jail, I think Tyson would have beaten both these men. After prison Tyson ceased being a sportsman, an athlete. His discipline had gone, his mental state had become affected and not fighting for 4 years had robbed him of his most potent asset bar his punching...his speed. He was a shot fighter. Without his speed he was unable to make life difficult against Holyfield or Lewis, especially with their longer reaches and clinching tactics whenever Tyson came in. Lewis knew the later he fought Tyson the more chance he had, thats why he fought him in 2002 (18 months before retiring) even though they are a similar age. Why not fight when both were in their 20s ? Lewis's career was heavily stage managed. As for Tyson he self destructed, in which sport could you miss four years of your career between the ages of 25-29 and then come back in your 30s and still be the best ?
lennox would have taken Tyson. Loook at the Ruddock fights,Lewis 2 round ko, Tyson 2 fights on points i think. Lewis could have taken Tyson when he was in his prime no problem.
And Lou Savarese knocked out James Buster Douglas, look at what Tyson did to Savarese ... and obviously what Buster Douglas famously did to Tyson. Sport doesn't work like that.
for me lennox's win over tyson was more symbolic than anything else....prime for prime it is a different fight completely...
lewis would have his hands full...
people say tyson had problems beating taller guys, but he really didnt. he might not have knocked them out as quickly but he sure got very clear UD's against them....there is nothing wrong with a fighter going the distance to win. ive no problems with toney, byrd or whoever doing it, and though tyson was a ko artist, ive no problems that he sometimes needed to too...
tyson would work constantly, slip the jab and use head movement to get close. he might get tied up but he'd land a few getting there...
tyson revisionism is in vogue these days but i dont quite buy it....
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Originally Posted by miles
cccccc,excellent,EXACTLY how I see the situation!! Everyone seems to forget Tyson's awesone ability to get up close and personal to guys bigger than him with awesome head movement,speed and WHEN he does get close,that BONE CRUNCHING POwer which Lewis simply would not be able to handle!!
the same way we can disregard Vitali's "loss" to a Lennox Lewis who was at that stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larryboy
I believe this fight had PACQUIAO on the under card and this really gave the exposure and made him blow up!
Everybody thinks that if they beat Mike Tyson, then they've done something.