Has there ever been?

A fighter who just dominated their era. I mean never lost a fight, never got knocked down, never had any close fights etc?

Obviously Marciano wouldnt count as he was dropped and had a few close fights, but I'm just wandering if there has ever been someone, from any weight division, any era in any time period at all who won every fight, was never put down or given a standing 8 count, never had a split decision or controversial win awarded to them?

Fighters around today, I can't see anyone like that. Mayweather comes closest but he had a very close fight with Castillo so he's out. Hatton has been put down so again he's out, Calzaghe has had some very close calls so he's out again.

I'm sure there must be someone somewhere, maybe Britkid will know of him?

The criteria then to recap.

Must have won a world title.

Must have never lost, never been put down, never had a split decision and never had a fight where you could argue the other guy could have won.

Any era, any weight division.

If someone comes up with someone I'll coolclick you every day for a week :D

Well, Roy Jones comes close to your description...
Too bad he lost

What about Ricardo Lopez?

51-0-0 flyweight champ

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Originally Posted by The_One77

What about Ricardo Lopez?

51-0-0 flyweight champ

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Hmm possibly, lets wait to see what Britkid has to say. I'm sure he will know of a round where he got rocked by a big punch in his 5th pro fight or something.

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Originally Posted by The_One77

What about Ricardo Lopez?

51-0-0 flyweight champ

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Just checked his record. He had one draw too so he's out. Also put down in the same fight for the first time in his career. Fight stopped due to Lopez being cut and TD awarded.

He's out then.

ove sventke? or however his named is spelled sorry. the only thing that bothers me is that he never fought against u.s competition

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Originally Posted by TaxanBaller

ove sventke? or however his named is spelled sorry. the only thing that bothers me is that he never fought against u.s competition

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You had me worried for a minute but I see he won a spilit decision against Bryon Mitchell and scanning through his record he had a couple of other fights where one judge gave it even so thankfully he's out too.

Ricardo Lopez was the most dominant. He was the best boxer in the division for 10 years. Period.

zab judah 8)

There was a Cuban Heavyweight who fought inthe Olympics, I'm not sure anyone comes close to dominance, too bad he never turned pro, but he didn't want to fight Ali ;D

Ricardo Lopez as a Strawweight, undoubtdly meets that criteria.

Carlos Monzon never looked like he was going to lose, maybe the first Valdez was close-ish

James J Jeffries dominated his era, he had trouble with Corbett, but still won both fights by KO.

Brian Mitchell with hindsight was a dominant undefeated 130lber, but he had the draw with Lopez.

As a Welterweight World Champion, Robinson was untouchable.

Michael Spinks totally dominated his era as Light Heavyweight World Champion.

hmm Bilbo, interesting topic.. I guess it depends on how long of a time frame you are talking, I mean how long did they have to reign for.. IMO, Mike Tyson is a good one, he was never anywhere close to being in the slightest trouble in a proffessional fight until he lost, really. Also Ricardo Lopez is a good one. Pernell Whittaker would take it though, maybe? He really never lost a fight until Trinidad, and was untouched in his prime. At lighweight, he was practically robbed many times in that any rounds went to the opponenet, he was completely untouched forever and the fighters people picked to finally beat himn didn't(Chavez, DLH)

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Originally Posted by p4pking

hmm Bilbo, interesting topic.. I guess it depends on how long of a time frame you are talking, I mean how long did they have to reign for.. IMO, Mike Tyson is a good one, he was never anywhere close to being in the slightest trouble in a proffessional fight until he lost, really. Also Ricardo Lopez is a good one. Pernell Whittaker would take it though, maybe? He really never lost a fight until Trinidad, and was untouched in his prime. At lighweight, he was practically robbed many times in that any rounds went to the opponenet, he was completely untouched forever and the fighters people picked to finally beat himn didn't(Chavez, DLH)

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Tyson was staggered by Bruno, Smith and Tucker and Whitaker was decked by Mayweather, so on Bilbo's criteria, neither can count.

JACK JOHNSON dominated his era and towards the end of his reighn he took dives as Bert points out. he dived and was supposedly more concerned with the sun in his eyes then laying there knocked out on the ground.

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by p4pking

hmm Bilbo, interesting topic.. I guess it depends on how long of a time frame you are talking, I mean how long did they have to reign for.. IMO, Mike Tyson is a good one, he was never anywhere close to being in the slightest trouble in a proffessional fight until he lost, really. Also Ricardo Lopez is a good one. Pernell Whittaker would take it though, maybe? He really never lost a fight until Trinidad, and was untouched in his prime. At lighweight, he was practically robbed many times in that any rounds went to the opponenet, he was completely untouched forever and the fighters people picked to finally beat himn didn't(Chavez, DLH)

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Tyson was staggered by Bruno, Smith and Tucker and Whitaker was decked by Mayweather, so on Bilbo's criteria, neither can count.

hmm....Staggered is an overstatement, imo. Tyson beat them all quite easily, Bruno gave him the msot trouble imo, to the body. But indeed Pernell did get floored, still you could start counting after that and he still reigned for many years without truly being it trouble. Also I suspect Mayweather got somewhat lucky in florring Pernell, or maybe he was clowning? I can't really remember.

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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P

JACK JOHNSON dominated his era and towards the end of his reighn he took dives as Bert points out. he dived and was supposedly more concerned with the sun in his eyes then laying there knocked out on the ground.

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He was decked by Ketchel; Jim Johnson agreed to carry him, when he injured his arm; and although Johnson always stated he dived against Willard, with 'that' picture to back him up; when the film of the fight was found, it clearly shows Johnson passing out ;)

[img width=700 height=444]http://www.antekprizering.com/willardkojohnsonpc1104.jpeg[/img]

Thanks for the replies guys, I guess according to my strict criteria no fighter meets those requirements.

Monzon lost early in his career, Lopez was put down and got a draw so he's out. Thankfully Sven Ottke is out cos he drew too.

I'm just suprised that there really has probably never been anybody who meets the criteria.

James Jeffries was knocked out by Johnson so he's out too.

There must be somebody somewhere though...................

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Originally Posted by bilbo

Thanks for the replies guys, I guess according to my strict criteria no fighter meets those requirements.

Monzon lost early in his career, Lopez was put down and got a draw so he's out. Thankfully Sven Ottke is out cos he drew too.

I'm just suprised that there really has probably never been anybody who meets the criteria.

James Jeffries was knocked out by Johnson so he's out too.

There must be somebody somewhere though...................

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No ottke isnt out just coz of that but coz he had several controversial decisions ;)

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by bilbo

Thanks for the replies guys, I guess according to my strict criteria no fighter meets those requirements.

Monzon lost early in his career, Lopez was put down and got a draw so he's out. Thankfully Sven Ottke is out cos he drew too.

I'm just suprised that there really has probably never been anybody who meets the criteria.

James Jeffries was knocked out by Johnson so he's out too.

There must be somebody somewhere though...................

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No ottke isnt out just coz of that but coz he had several controversial decisions ;)

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Great as long as he's OUT I'm happy. I'm just glad Valuev's win over Ruiz was so contrversial as else he could have been the only fighter that currently fit my criteria :-X

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P

JACK JOHNSON dominated his era and towards the end of his reighn he took dives as Bert points out. he dived and was supposedly more concerned with the sun in his eyes then laying there knocked out on the ground.

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He was decked by Ketchel; Jim Johnson agreed to carry him, when he injured his arm; and although Johnson always stated he dived against Willard, with 'that' picture to back him up; when the film of the fight was found, it clearly shows Johnson passing out ;)

[img width=700 height=444]http://www.antekprizering.com/willardkojohnsonpc1104.jpeg[/img]

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I agree he defiintely looked out. I've seen highlights of that fight and a few others. My favourite Johnson fight was against fireman Jim Flynn, where it was quite literally a tall man beating a midget by holding his head at arms length with one hand and punching him repeatedly in the face with another ;D

Cant belive Flynn later KO's Dempsey in one round ???

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I'm just suprised that there really has probably never been anybody who meets the criteria.

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I'd be more surprised if there was. In other sports, greats, and dominant forces of their eras, can get beat numerous times and have numerous "off" nights. Obviously in boxing you get punished in the most severe way when having an "off" night and as history shows they are pretty much unavoidable.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by bilbo

I'm just suprised that there really has probably never been anybody who meets the criteria.

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I'd be more surprised if there was. In other sports, greats, and dominant forces of their eras, can get beat numerous times and have numerous "off" nights. Obviously in boxing you get punished in the most severe way when having an "off" night and as history shows they are pretty much unavoidable.

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Yeah but you would think someone would have done it. I'm not saying they have to knock out every fighter, just never get knocked down and to win every fight decisively.

You would think that someone in the last 100 years or so must have done it. Ricardo Lopez seems to have fallen short based on only one fight so he was the closest so far.

It would be like asking if there is an NBA player who has never shot an airball.

I think you have to go back to the late 90's in the WCW... there was this guy named Goldberg... ::**

Ricardo Lopez was droppedd and i mean dropped hard by an uppercut by Rosendo Alvarez in their first fight which was stoped because of a headbutt, it went to the score cards and was declared a draw. Ricardo later avenged that lost in their second fight.

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Originally Posted by bilbo

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Originally Posted by Snakey

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Originally Posted by bilbo

Thanks for the replies guys, I guess according to my strict criteria no fighter meets those requirements.

Monzon lost early in his career, Lopez was put down and got a draw so he's out. Thankfully Sven Ottke is out cos he drew too.

I'm just suprised that there really has probably never been anybody who meets the criteria.

James Jeffries was knocked out by Johnson so he's out too.

There must be somebody somewhere though...................

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No ottke isnt out just coz of that but coz he had several controversial decisions ;)

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Great as long as he's OUT I'm happy. I'm just glad Valuev's win over Ruiz was so contrversial as else he could have been the only fighter that currently fit my criteria :-X

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Cut Sven Ottke some slack. I just look at his record and by his 17th fight he had beaten Charles Brewer, Thomas Tate and Glen Johnson, those are names, and for 17 fights? Most fighters don't face or beat that kind of opposition until their 25th fight or 29th

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Originally Posted by Britkid

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Originally Posted by TheBESTP4P

JACK JOHNSON dominated his era and towards the end of his reighn he took dives as Bert points out. he dived and was supposedly more concerned with the sun in his eyes then laying there knocked out on the ground.

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He was decked by Ketchel; Jim Johnson agreed to carry him, when he injured his arm; and although Johnson always stated he dived against Willard, with 'that' picture to back him up; when the film of the fight was found, it clearly shows Johnson passing out ;)

[img width=700 height=444]http://www.antekprizering.com/willardkojohnsonpc1104.jpeg[/img]

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Cool Click for the pic thats def a historical PIMP pic, but i was saying early that Bert claimed that he was covering his eyes from the sun, shiiiiiit i wasnt there and no one else was there on this forum unless they are like 100yrs old haahha.

theres also a claim that if you watch the film his wife leaves in like the 9th round which indicates to johnson that she recieved the payoff

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

theres also a claim that if you watch the film his wife leaves in like the 9th round which indicates to johnson that she recieved the payoff

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Why wouldn't she just stay with the payoff and finish watching the fight.

You mean that this guy took dives for money and people still honor him???

Amazing

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Originally Posted by The_One77

Well, Roy Jones comes close to your description...
Too bad he lost

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That would have been my pick.

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

theres also a claim that if you watch the film his wife leaves in like the 9th round which indicates to johnson that she recieved the payoff

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Why wouldn't she just stay with the payoff and finish watching the fight.

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cuz her leaving was supposed to be the signal to him that she got paid and he could take the dive

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

theres also a claim that if you watch the film his wife leaves in like the 9th round which indicates to johnson that she recieved the payoff

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Why wouldn't she just stay with the payoff and finish watching the fight.

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cuz her leaving was supposed to be the signal to him that she got paid and he could take the dive

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yes sir sal i do concurr, i too have heard that rumor.

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

theres also a claim that if you watch the film his wife leaves in like the 9th round which indicates to johnson that she recieved the payoff

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Why wouldn't she just stay with the payoff and finish watching the fight.

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cuz her leaving was supposed to be the signal to him that she got paid and he could take the dive

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If she left in the ninth, why the hell did he stay up til the twentieth?
I think Johnson was well past his prime by this fight, he would have battered Willard 5 years earlier. IMO he was knackered after a long fight on a hot day against a guy he couldn't impose his strengh on, and fell over of exhaustion more than being knocked from his senses.

On the subject of the post, I think Joe Calzaghe said it best when he said that fighters aren't robots and they are inevitably going to have off nights, or maybe lose focus for just a second in one fight. Many fighters come close, psobably the closest are ricardo lopez (though I've only seen his record) and Roy Jones, who would have fit the criteria except for one tiny lack of focus against griffin, and if he'd retired after ruiz

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

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Originally Posted by mucho testosterone

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Originally Posted by SalTheButcher

theres also a claim that if you watch the film his wife leaves in like the 9th round which indicates to johnson that she recieved the payoff

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Why wouldn't she just stay with the payoff and finish watching the fight.

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cuz her leaving was supposed to be the signal to him that she got paid and he could take the dive

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If she left in the ninth, why the hell did he stay up til the twentieth?

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i dont know what round she left, i dont remember, it was just an example, im not saying its true tho, just adding what ive heard he himself claimed

I looked at most of the responses here and I couldn't find any mention of Joe Louis, a man who dominated heavyweight boxing for many years and who successfully defended his title 25 times. He did have a couple of close shaves during that time, split decision wins over Arturo Godoy and Jersey Joe Walcott and a late knockout behind on points against Billy Conn, but otherwise he pretty much destroyed his opposition. I would call that serious dominance!

Larry Holmes dominated the heavyweight division for around 7 years and also mostly won decisively with only a few close shaves, a split decision win over Tim Witherspoon, a close call with Earnie Shavers and a close fight with Carl "the truth" Williams. He came within 1 fight of tying Marciano's record of 49 straight victories as a heavyweight, losing his 49th fight with Michael Spinks in 1985.

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Originally Posted by mokele

I looked at most of the responses here and I couldn't find any mention of Joe Louis, a man who dominated heavyweight boxing for many years and who successfully defended his title 25 times. He did have a couple of close shaves during that time, split decision wins over Arturo Godoy and Jersey Joe Walcott and a late knockout behind on points against Billy Conn, but otherwise he pretty much destroyed his opposition. I would call that serious dominance!

Larry Holmes dominated the heavyweight division for around 7 years and also mostly won decisively with only a few close shaves, a split decision win over Tim Witherspoon, a close call with Earnie Shavers and a close fight with Carl "the truth" Williams. He came within 1 fight of tying Marciano's record of 49 straight victories as a heavyweight, losing his 49th fight with Michael Spinks in 1985.

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Yeah just a shame Max Schmeling knocked his a** out before he became world champ ;)

Not to mention getting dropped by the 40's version of Butterbean Two Ton Galento, winning a gift decision over Joe Woolcott after getting dropped twice amongst others.

I actually think Louis is overrated.


And almost losing to Billy Conn is actually pretty woeful considering he outweighed by him by more than 30 pounds. Conn wasn't even a heavyweight.

Loius would have been comfortably beaten by some of the true greats Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Liston etc

Ali said it best, he was flat footed. The list of people would of beaten Louis is probably a big one...

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Originally Posted by Starr

There was a Cuban Heavyweight who fought inthe Olympics, I'm not sure anyone comes close to dominance, too bad he never turned pro, but he didn't want to fight Ali ;D

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That was Teofilio Stevenson- great great great fighter, Would have happily fought Ali but is a loyal Cuban and quite the communist (ended up as Cuban Minister for Sport). He's have given prime Ali a run for his money IMO.

Also, in apart answer to the question - Ray Robinson had something like 200 amateur fights, only losing three, and then went straight into a 140 fight winning streak as pro. Seems pretty dominant in a tough era?

I go with Mokele, and say Larry Holmes. I've started threads about Holmes before, and how he was not recognized as he should be. But, Larry reigned supreme for a long time. And he lost to Spinks barely, but he won the rematch and was robbed.

Ricardo Lopez gets a nod too. You have to give Marciano a nod also, I mean, he did retire undefeated.